UGCTT_zackthewop - Saku fans at the worst. He was really good but was destroyed in his prime by a guy in the same weight division.<br><br>Wand is ahead on the goat list easily <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>
youre a clueless n00b faggot
first off, what youre assuming was his prime was most likely actually past it. guy went through the ringer.
he was a natural 185er that fought mostly guys 20-50lbs heavier. he broke the shoulders of several gracies with the same move. he came to the ring with a different theme each time he fought. he drank. he smoked.
saku was the fucking man.
go back to sherdog and jerking off to frank mir, you pasty, greasy, guinea faggot
Yes I'm a noob. What a retort.
I'm guessing you say that because of my join date? I've been on this forum for at least ten years and yes I can prove it.
So tell me smart guy what was sakus prime?
Was it when he was beating world champions like silveira, Vernon white, and ryan and beating smaller fighters like newton, royler, macias, and ritch, and then drawing with the likes of Allan goes?
He had some solid wins in there against guys like renzo, braga, belfort (who broke his hand early), and royce (who had not fought in 5 years)and was always fun to watch but none of those guys were ever top 5 at middleweight except belfort and maybe braga.
After his run there from about 97-2000 he then went 3-6 in his next three years with a great win against a green rampage, 3 devastating losses to wand, and got ko'd by schembri....,but he did beat Gilles arsene.
Not trying to bash saku. He is probably my favorite jmma fighter after genki but he is no where near goat status.
Trackman 2 - Henderson and Bustamonte would have run through the gracies faster and more violently than Sakuraba. They were the real 2 best lb. for lb. kings at that time.
Sakuraba was once easily the consensus greatest MMA fighter ever. The singularly preeminent legend in the sport. That was just reality at the time.
If you were around for that reality, you knew this was the perception that existed then - whether you personally agreed with that perception, with that consensus, or not. You just couldn't avoid it.
Even if you personally thought Sak was overrated or over-celebrated - the reality is that he was more widely celebrated and considered the greatest more than any other MMA fighter ever to that point, even surpassing previous greatest-evers like Frank Shamrock, Igor, and the original greatest in Royce.
Sak comprehensively reigned over the sport, and there was a reason why he was so celebrated at that time. He did things no one had ever seen or done before.
He had accumulated the most elite and historically significant set of wins in MMA history to that point. (Where his era-defining Gracie-hunting run had culminated and cemented his singular supremacy.)
Anyone trying to even suggest now that Royce was not a huge or epic win at the time, because Royce wasn't ranked "top 5" (lol), almost necessarily wasn't following at that time. Because in reality then, Royce was the single biggest, most impactful, and mythical win ever to that point - the biggest win that was even possible in the sport, aside from one over his even more mythical brother Rickson, the ultimate Gracie of all.
(Why TF do you think Sak vs. Rickson was not just the biggest dream fight even imaginable at that point, but still very arguably the biggest dream fight ever? But, but, but... Rickson wasn't even ranked "top 10"! Lol.)
Anachronistic newer-fan perspective.
Vitor was the #2 under-HW/200 fighter in NHB at the time he fought Sak, behind only the #1 and Champion at that point in Frank Shamrock, and Vitor was definitely a huge win and upset for Sak at the time - and yet ultimately, Royce was still the far bigger, more historically significant win. (Despite being technically "unranked," lol.)
You can say in hindsight that others could have done what Sak did, too.
But the reality remains, Sak is the one who did.
He did things that blew our collective minds when they happened at the time - not just because of who he beat, but how he beat them - and not just because he did it first (although that was ultimately significant, too), but because he did it so unforgettably and innovatively.
Sak was the most accomplished fighter this sport had ever seen to that point - and the most revolutionary since Royce.
He shattered previously unbeatable myths, beat legit top contenders at the time who were also significantly bigger - where Sak was a 183 fighter who lied to qualify for the over-199 UFC HW tournament, who even weighed in at 176 for the Pride GP (which was open-weight) - while still consistently taking on, being competitive with, and even decisively beating meaningful opponents from 200/205 and HW.
And he did so using techniques and style we had never seen before - with an unprecedented mix of wrestling and submissions - and with unprecedented creativity, and an almost magical flair.
Royce and the Gracie family had revolutionized the world of martial arts.
Sakuraba then revolutionized the world of MMA.
No one ever opened our eyes and blew our minds as unforgettably.
Reading fightfinder and archived rankings alone, in hindsight, won't even nearly tell the whole tale - or define the overall impact Sakuraba had on the world of MMA at the time. Or quantify his preeminent greatness to that point.
whistleblower - Sakuraba was once easily the consensus greatest MMA fighter ever. The singularly preeminent legend in the sport. That was just reality at the time.
If you were around for that reality, you knew this was the perception that existed then - whether you personally agreed with that perception, with that consensus, or not. You just couldn't avoid it.
Even if you personally thought Sak was overrated or over-celebrated - the reality is that he was more widely celebrated and considered the greatest more than any other MMA fighter ever to that point, even surpassing previous greatest-evers like Frank Shamrock, Igor, and the original greatest in Royce.
Sak comprehensively reigned over the sport, and there was a reason why he was so celebrated at that time. He did things no one had ever seen or done before.
He had accumulated the most elite and historically significant set of wins in MMA history to that point. (Where his era-defining Gracie-hunting run had culminated and cemented his singular supremacy.)
Anyone trying to even suggest now that Royce was not a huge or epic win at the time, because Royce wasn't ranked "top 5" (lol), almost necessarily wasn't following at that time. Because in reality then, Royce was the single biggest, most impactful, and mythical win ever to that point - the biggest win that was even possible in the sport, aside from one over his even more mythical brother Rickson, the ultimate Gracie of all.
(Why TF do you think Sak vs. Rickson was not just the biggest dream fight even imaginable at that point, but still very arguably the biggest dream fight ever? But, but, but... Rickson wasn't even ranked "top 10"! Lol.)
Anachronistic newer-fan perspective.
Vitor was the #2 under-HW/200 fighter in NHB at the time he fought Sak, behind only the #1 and Champion at that point in Frank Shamrock, and Vitor was definitely a huge win and upset for Sak at the time - and yet ultimately, Royce was still the far bigger, more historically significant win. (Despite being technically "unranked," lol.)
You can say in hindsight that others could have done what Sak did, too.
But the reality remains, Sak is the one who did.
He did things that blew our collective minds when they happened at the time - not just because of who he beat, but how he beat them - and not just because he did it first (although that was ultimately significant, too), but because he did it so unforgettably and innovatively.
Sak was the most accomplished fighter this sport had ever seen to that point - and the most revolutionary since Royce.
He shattered previously unbeatable myths, beat legit top contenders at the time who were also significantly bigger - where Sak was a 183 fighter who lied to qualify for the over-199 UFC HW tournament, who even weighed in at 176 for the Pride GP (which was open-weight) - while still consistently taking on, being competitive with, and even decisively beating meaningful opponents from 200/205 and HW.
And he did so using techniques and style we had never seen before - with an unprecedented mix of wrestling and submissions - and with unprecedented creativity, and an almost magical flair.
Royce and the Gracie family had revolutionized the world of martial arts.
Sakuraba then revolutionized the world of MMA.
No one ever opened our eyes and blew our minds as unforgettably.
Reading fightfinder and archived rankings alone, in hindsight, won't even nearly tell the whole tale - or define the overall impact Sakuraba had on the world of MMA at the time. Or quantify his preeminent greatness to that point.
You nut huggers are all the same. If someone doesn't agree with you and puts out facts they must just be looking at fight finder. I was around during those days and i did watch his fights. And yes Sak was great and highly overrated. His win against Royce was huge but it wasn't like he beat one of the best in the sport he beat a leged coming out of retirement.
And yes only beating a handful of top 5 even top 10 guys doesn't make you goat. I never once made comparisons to fighters today as I agree that is a stupid comparison. But when you look back at the guys he beat they were either small than him or really not that great with the exception of 3 or 4 guys.
Also yes vitor was probably his best win but it was also the weirdest vitor fight ever.
You would have to argue and say sakus prime was 97-2000 well there is no way you are going to tell me that saku beat a list of better guys than frank shamrock did during those years.
BaraoKix - He made Belfort look worse than hes ever looked, except for the Anderson kick.
Sak made Vitor have nightmares of leg kicks
Dude vitor broke his hand in the first round. He probably would have lost anyways but the was the weirdest vitor fight ever <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>
Weirdest Vitor fight ever? Hardly. The Charles fight and first Randy fight are up there too
The 2nd couture fight was just a freak accident.
You're right, the Charles "fight" was the weirdest
BaraoKix - He made Belfort look worse than hes ever looked, except for the Anderson kick.
Sak made Vitor have nightmares of leg kicks
Dude vitor broke his hand in the first round. He probably would have lost anyways but the was the weirdest vitor fight ever <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>
Weirdest Vitor fight ever? Hardly. The Charles fight and first Randy fight are up there too
The 2nd couture fight was just a freak accident.
You're right, the Charles "fight" was the weirdest
I didn't see you said 1st couture fight. I don't remember that one being odd
BaraoKix - He made Belfort look worse than hes ever looked, except for the Anderson kick.
Sak made Vitor have nightmares of leg kicks
Dude vitor broke his hand in the first round. He probably would have lost anyways but the was the weirdest vitor fight ever <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>
Weirdest Vitor fight ever? Hardly. The Charles fight and first Randy fight are up there too
The 2nd couture fight was just a freak accident.<br><br>You're right, the Charles "fight" was the weirdest <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>
The Elastic Assassin - Slydog just mongolian chopped all the haters into bolivion
Except all he did was talk more of how saku was a spectacle which nobody is denying.
He was an enigma and an amazing fighter but in order to be the goat you need to have consistently beat the best fighters in the world and he didn't. He did some awesome things and I'm aware of those things I'm just a realist.
