Matthew Godden -
kying I've been a fan of your place since you posted you're "My shrine to marcelo garcia" thread. I actually have it in my favorites at my house.
Tap21 can you post some more info about your place?
Mark Bradford - I've run two part-time academies while I worked a full time job. Takes up a lot of your time and can be tough if your married or have children. Trying to do both is very time consuming! 60 hours a week, not to mention tournaments on the weekend.I'm in the EXACT same boat as you were with the full time job and two academies. Great info!
It was also frustrating because you see the potential in your BJJ program, but can never fully devote the time needed for it to flourish.
Last year, I quit my full-time job to run a BJJ academy full-time! What a crazy adventure it's been! There are a lot of costs that people don't usually plan for or fail to see in the beginning.
Here is a list of typical expenses from month to month:
Rent
Telephone
Internet
Electric
Gas
Water
Software
taxes (plan to put away each month)
Credit card fees 3% is typical
Cleaning supplies
Advertising / marketing ( budget for and do this. This is where most people fail).
Doing this from my phone, so this is all I can think of for now.
Denis Kelly -This.
As mentioned above Marketing & advertising is a big one.
You need a steady stream of new enquiries, new trial members, & new join ups.
Probably when you first open you'll get a lot of curious visitors turning up just to check the place out but these are probably the same losers that turn up to inspect every new martial arts club that opens up within a ten mile radius, they will come in & do a few free sessions, waste your time then they'll tell you that they are between jobs at the minute & can't afford to pay for training then they'll go back to doing kung fu in their mums basement.
The best advice I can give is to direct your advertising at people who have no idea about martial arts
Tap21 -Matthew Godden -
kying I've been a fan of your place since you posted you're "My shrine to marcelo garcia" thread. I actually have it in my favorites at my house.
Tap21 can you post some more info about your place?
What would you like to know?
I'm interested in things like the type of location you have (inside something or stand alone) how many students, rent, and stuff. I understand if you don't want to give out all the details. I doubt I will ever have my own gym but if I did I'd want something small.
kying418 -Matthew Godden -
kying I've been a fan of your place since you posted you're "My shrine to marcelo garcia" thread. I actually have it in my favorites at my house.
Tap21 can you post some more info about your place?
Thanks for the kind words! Did you know I grew up in Grand Island? I lived there from 1980 (second grade) until 1991 (graduated high school).
It's awesome to see that there is great BJJ in the area now!
I didn't know that. If you ever come back to the area to visit please come train!
My biggest advice is don't go crazy on a huge space. We're in a business of passion not big money. Focus on the kids for a bit since they are the future, from there it will also be easier to sign up parents and build your adult class and comp team
Some great info on this thread. Thanks to everyone for sharing.
Ttt
CanadianMMA94 -Denis Kelly -This.
As mentioned above Marketing & advertising is a big one.
You need a steady stream of new enquiries, new trial members, & new join ups.
Probably when you first open you'll get a lot of curious visitors turning up just to check the place out but these are probably the same losers that turn up to inspect every new martial arts club that opens up within a ten mile radius, they will come in & do a few free sessions, waste your time then they'll tell you that they are between jobs at the minute & can't afford to pay for training then they'll go back to doing kung fu in their mums basement.
The best advice I can give is to direct your advertising at people who have no idea about martial arts
I'm a program director for a gym (basically gym manager) and it's a great experience to learn some things before I open my own gym. The biggest thing I learned is you gotta spend at least $500 a month in advertising. About 50% of the people who inquire and make appointments will never show up. After that about 80% of those who do will sign up. We're 8 months in now and have 53 students. This would be awesome but the owners overhead is so fucking crazy he's screwing himself.
kying418 -I'm a manager at a gym that won't advance because the owner. So I partnered up for BJJ and we are gonna do our own spot. We have figured out and we have half the students we need to support our costs and me on a tiny salary. I have no kids and my wife works so we are ok with this. Til we can the needed members or start up our kids program it will be tight, but we aren't going on our own til we have the customers.CanadianMMA94 -Denis Kelly -This.
As mentioned above Marketing & advertising is a big one.
You need a steady stream of new enquiries, new trial members, & new join ups.
Probably when you first open you'll get a lot of curious visitors turning up just to check the place out but these are probably the same losers that turn up to inspect every new martial arts club that opens up within a ten mile radius, they will come in & do a few free sessions, waste your time then they'll tell you that they are between jobs at the minute & can't afford to pay for training then they'll go back to doing kung fu in their mums basement.
The best advice I can give is to direct your advertising at people who have no idea about martial arts
I'm a program director for a gym (basically gym manager) and it's a great experience to learn some things before I open my own gym. The biggest thing I learned is you gotta spend at least $500 a month in advertising. About 50% of the people who inquire and make appointments will never show up. After that about 80% of those who do will sign up. We're 8 months in now and have 53 students. This would be awesome but the owners overhead is so fucking crazy he's screwing himself.
Absolutely- you will get eaten alive if your overhead (namely rent) is too high.
FantoFighter- have you figured out how many students you need to continue to sustain your current lifestyle, if you switch to teaching full time?
I'm guessing it's a large amount, after you account for the rent, utilities, and all the other expenses.
It is not impossible to do (of course), but be expected to lose money for many months until you hit that target amount of students. Most owners cannot survive these critical months, and that is why there are so many failing/closed gyms.
this is an awesome thread, alot of great information here
Matthew Godden -Tap21 -Matthew Godden -
kying I've been a fan of your place since you posted you're "My shrine to marcelo garcia" thread. I actually have it in my favorites at my house.
Tap21 can you post some more info about your place?
What would you like to know?
I'm interested in things like the type of location you have (inside something or stand alone) how many students, rent, and stuff. I understand if you don't want to give out all the details. I doubt I will ever have my own gym but if I did I'd want something small.
Tap21 -That is so god damn coolMatthew Godden -Tap21 -Matthew Godden -
kying I've been a fan of your place since you posted you're "My shrine to marcelo garcia" thread. I actually have it in my favorites at my house.
Tap21 can you post some more info about your place?
What would you like to know?
I'm interested in things like the type of location you have (inside something or stand alone) how many students, rent, and stuff. I understand if you don't want to give out all the details. I doubt I will ever have my own gym but if I did I'd want something small.
Okay, I will try to tell you as much as I can without laying out our entire operation for curious competitors (if there are any out there).
We are in our own standalone location. It is a basement unit in a small strip mall that has no street frontage and is tucked in behind a breakfast cafe.
Basically, it is one of the cheapest types of commercial (non-industrial) space you can find. It is a single room that is roughly 27' x 17'. So it's about 459 sq. feet. We have 300 sq. feet of flexi roll with another 50 sq. ft. arriving sometime this week.
The lack of street frontage is a big deal. It basically means we get zero walk-ins off signage. It also means we pay a ridiculously low rent. At the beginning, we weighed the pros and cons of this scenario very carefully and decided on the super low rents. I think a case can certainly be made for the opposite decision even in a micro gym like ours.
We have no kids program (no one under 18 is even allowed), no striking, no boxercise, no women's classes, no aerobics type stuff. We have no weights, kettle bells, swiss balls, or etc. We have mats and grappling. Basically, our gym is very oriented towards competition. I'm sure if we started a kids class, some boxercise/crossfit type fitness stuff, or a womens' class we could easily triple our enrollment. We have no intention of ever doing that.
We do no contracts, accept no credit cards, and just let our guys pay cash every month. I'm sure contracts would also increase monthly enrollment significantly. Again, we have no intention of ever forcing contracts on our students.
We have 4 other schools within a few miles of us. Those four schools include five BJJ Blackbelt instructors and at least one or two other BBs who are students at those schools. I and the other instructor are like 10+ year 100% no-gi guys and don't believe in or use belts at all. We have been competing in advanced divisions since 2004 and still compete. We aren't world crushers, but we try to keep going out there and putting it on the line. Between the two instructors, we have a modest number of medals from GQ Advanced Divisions.
Our guys seem to find the lack of belts thing to be refreshing. There is absolutely no drama in our gym as to rank or belts, because there are no rank or belts. We do have our guys keep track of their hours of training on a chalk board on the wall. Everyone likes the measurement by hours because it is an objective measurement that only measures work done and doesn't pretend to measure skill. We let the students include all their grappling training hours, including that done at other gyms. We let the rolling and competing do the talking as far as skill goes. We have a super high competition participation rate.
We have an open mat on Sundays that is 100% free and open to anybody from any school. That session sometimes has double digit attendance. We have six regular classes Monday-Thursday. These classes usually have 2-8 guys. Right now, we have a crew of some number over a dozen guys of which some fraction usually composes the paying students in any given month. That number seems to grow slowly but steadily.
I think we charge less than half of what any of our competitors charge.
We have done a small amount of effective advertising to the masses. I can describe what we have done in that respect if you want to message me (not sure if I am allowed to receive messages here). We also have a grappling related podcast (The Whiskey and Chokes Podcast) that seems to do a good job in advertising the gym to people already involved in grappling.
Our gym is obviously not focused on maximizing pecuniary return. But, I would definitely agree with others that if you are trying to earn a living off a gym, the key is effective advertising that constantly generates inquiries month after month.
Wow...I didn't expect that response.
Thanks!
in for more of this pecuniary stuff...
Incredible thread! Thanks kyung for going me some insight into your academy!
Tap21's micro gym idea is something I've been thinking of doing something like that for a long time. No contracts, no workout equipment, no kids program, insane price, etc is something I love hearing. Ha it seems every aspect of your gym contrasts the ones around in your area. You provide things other can't/won't which I feel is necessary for new gyms trying to get established. Appreciate you guys sharing
Kying sharing* sorry!
So guys, $1200 a month utilities included in a downtown spot kinda out of the way, or $2000 a month in a strip mall with lots of signs right across from the only walmart in a long ways?
Tap21 -Matthew Godden -Tap21 -Matthew Godden -
kying I've been a fan of your place since you posted you're "My shrine to marcelo garcia" thread. I actually have it in my favorites at my house.
Tap21 can you post some more info about your place?
What would you like to know?
I'm interested in things like the type of location you have (inside something or stand alone) how many students, rent, and stuff. I understand if you don't want to give out all the details. I doubt I will ever have my own gym but if I did I'd want something small.
Okay, I will try to tell you as much as I can without laying out our entire operation for curious competitors (if there are any out there).
We are in our own standalone location. It is a basement unit in a small strip mall that has no street frontage and is tucked in behind a breakfast cafe.
Basically, it is one of the cheapest types of commercial (non-industrial) space you can find. It is a single room that is roughly 27' x 17'. So it's about 459 sq. feet. We have 300 sq. feet of flexi roll with another 50 sq. ft. arriving sometime this week.
The lack of street frontage is a big deal. It basically means we get zero walk-ins off signage. It also means we pay a ridiculously low rent. At the beginning, we weighed the pros and cons of this scenario very carefully and decided on the super low rents. I think a case can certainly be made for the opposite decision even in a micro gym like ours.
We have no kids program (no one under 18 is even allowed), no striking, no boxercise, no women's classes, no aerobics type stuff. We have no weights, kettle bells, swiss balls, or etc. We have mats and grappling. Basically, our gym is very oriented towards competition. I'm sure if we started a kids class, some boxercise/crossfit type fitness stuff, or a womens' class we could easily triple our enrollment. We have no intention of ever doing that.
We do no contracts, accept no credit cards, and just let our guys pay cash every month. I'm sure contracts would also increase monthly enrollment significantly. Again, we have no intention of ever forcing contracts on our students.
We have 4 other schools within a few miles of us. Those four schools include five BJJ Blackbelt instructors and at least one or two other BBs who are students at those schools. I and the other instructor are like 10+ year 100% no-gi guys and don't believe in or use belts at all. We have been competing in advanced divisions since 2004 and still compete. We aren't world crushers, but we try to keep going out there and putting it on the line. Between the two instructors, we have a modest number of medals from GQ Advanced Divisions.
Our guys seem to find the lack of belts thing to be refreshing. There is absolutely no drama in our gym as to rank or belts, because there are no rank or belts. We do have our guys keep track of their hours of training on a chalk board on the wall. Everyone likes the measurement by hours because it is an objective measurement that only measures work done and doesn't pretend to measure skill. We let the students include all their grappling training hours, including that done at other gyms. We let the rolling and competing do the talking as far as skill goes. We have a super high competition participation rate.
We have an open mat on Sundays that is 100% free and open to anybody from any school. That session sometimes has double digit attendance. We have six regular classes Monday-Thursday. These classes usually have 2-8 guys. Right now, we have a crew of some number over a dozen guys of which some fraction usually composes the paying students in any given month. That number seems to grow slowly but steadily.
I think we charge less than half of what any of our competitors charge.
We have done a small amount of effective advertising to the masses. I can describe what we have done in that respect if you want to message me (not sure if I am allowed to receive messages here). We also have a grappling related podcast (The Whiskey and Chokes Podcast) that seems to do a good job in advertising the gym to people already involved in grappling.
Our gym is obviously not focused on maximizing pecuniary return. But, I would definitely agree with others that if you are trying to earn a living off a gym, the key is effective advertising that constantly generates inquiries month after month.
Thanks for the info!
FanToFighter - So guys, $1200 a month utilities included in a downtown spot kinda out of the way, or $2000 a month in a strip mall with lots of signs right across from the only walmart in a long ways?Is it 2,000 all included and what is the square footage in each?