So AS would be favorite VS JBJ?

Underground
41
Lazer MMA -
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 

Jones would be a MASSIVE favorite for this fight. I could see it being 2/5 jones 2/1 silva. If i could get close to even money on jones i would put everything i have on it. No way silva beats him.



This is WTF I want to know, the odds. I think lots of folks would back Silva. I don't know about "everything i have on it", but it will be some number, especially at even $$ or better.

By the time the fight comes around everyone will have different opinions. How would yours change if he for example kos gsp in the first. What if Jones loses against chael or whoever's after chael. Phone Post

42

Lazer MMA - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 


^^^^^^ Sakurai, Newton, Franklin, Hendo



 



Shit, at the time Jones fought Evans he was no different that Forrest. LHW Former Champion who only held the belt for one fight.



 



I will assume that you may need some help understanding who Sakurai/Newton were as far as great fighters as you seem to be a newer fan to the sport....



LMFAO at new to the sport! I'd bet I was fighting when your mom was breast feeding you.

Yes to Sakurai ESPECIALLY at that time!

Newton at that point had lost Matt X2, Memme. Moreover he went only 4-7 for thest of his carrier after AS, so NO (it's not like when Hendo beat him)

Hendo without weight on was never as good as with weight on. His claim to fame at 85 was the very close fight with Busta. With weight on he's 2-1 VS the HW GOATS and won an open weight tourney. So it's a very good win but not not on par I'd guess.

I'll give you Ace, don't know why there is not more respect for him

So No

He never challenged the best when they were the best. JBJ is the last shot. I'll bet even $$ the fight does not happen in the next 2 years.



So you just agreed that 3/4 I named were in fact legends.



 



All you need to do is get your head out of your ass trying to call Evans and Machida legends at the time Bones fought them to see the reality.



 



Jones has faced 2 true legends in Shogun and Page. Yet he faced them when they were clearly nowhere near their prime. Where Anderson took on Sakurai/Hendo/Franklin all in the peak of their careers. ;)

43

UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Lazer MMA - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 


^^^^^^ Sakurai, Newton, Franklin, Hendo



 



Shit, at the time Jones fought Evans he was no different that Forrest. LHW Former Champion who only held the belt for one fight.



 



I will assume that you may need some help understanding who Sakurai/Newton were as far as great fighters as you seem to be a newer fan to the sport....



LMFAO at new to the sport! I'd bet I was fighting when your mom was breast feeding you.

Yes to Sakurai ESPECIALLY at that time!

Newton at that point had lost Matt X2, Memme. Moreover he went only 4-7 for thest of his carrier after AS, so NO (it's not like when Hendo beat him)

Hendo without weight on was never as good as with weight on. His claim to fame at 85 was the very close fight with Busta. With weight on he's 2-1 VS the HW GOATS and won an open weight tourney. So it's a very good win but not not on par I'd guess.

I'll give you Ace, don't know why there is not more respect for him

So No

He never challenged the best when they were the best. JBJ is the last shot. I'll bet even $$ the fight does not happen in the next 2 years.



LMAO @ trying to discredit Newton for his record AFTER they fought. You further your n00b by saying he lost to Matt twice knowing that he really only lost once. More proof you are just using Wiki or Sherdog fight finder.



 



"he never challenged the best".....who exactly should he have challenged that he didn't? What MW was he avoiding?



LnP just stop the troll here TY. You said you'd bet AS that is the data I wanted in this thread. If you think that was his prime (Newton) going 4-8 until he quit (including that fight with AS)fine. LOL at me meaning MW BTW. We have been over the rest, and this is not the thread. TY and have a nice day

44

UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Lazer MMA - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 


^^^^^^ Sakurai, Newton, Franklin, Hendo



 



Shit, at the time Jones fought Evans he was no different that Forrest. LHW Former Champion who only held the belt for one fight.



 



I will assume that you may need some help understanding who Sakurai/Newton were as far as great fighters as you seem to be a newer fan to the sport....



LMFAO at new to the sport! I'd bet I was fighting when your mom was breast feeding you.

Yes to Sakurai ESPECIALLY at that time!

Newton at that point had lost Matt X2, Memme. Moreover he went only 4-7 for thest of his carrier after AS, so NO (it's not like when Hendo beat him)

Hendo without weight on was never as good as with weight on. His claim to fame at 85 was the very close fight with Busta. With weight on he's 2-1 VS the HW GOATS and won an open weight tourney. So it's a very good win but not not on par I'd guess.

I'll give you Ace, don't know why there is not more respect for him

So No

He never challenged the best when they were the best. JBJ is the last shot. I'll bet even $$ the fight does not happen in the next 2 years.



So you just agreed that 3/4 I named were in fact legends.



 



All you need to do is get your head out of your ass trying to call Evans and Machida legends at the time Bones fought them to see the reality.



 



Jones has faced 2 true legends in Shogun and Page. Yet he faced them when they were clearly nowhere near their prime. Where Anderson took on Sakurai/Hendo/Franklin all in the peak of their careers. ;)



Please stop the troll and derail here LnP. I should not have used the word 'legend' perhaps. "He's fought guys AS has not that are much better than AS's average opponent. In a single year he fought Machida, Page, Shogun and Evans."

We can leave it at that. TY LnP

45

This is the closest thing I will get to you admitting you were wrong. I accept your apology and your attempt to decieve reality.

 

Yes, fighting those 4 opponents in one single year is better than anything Anderson has done IN ONE SINGLE YEAR. That's all though. Jones' resume is not even close to Anderson's overall.

 

If all this thread talked about was the betting line it would have died already, so you shouldn't want to stop any side conversations. It will keep your thread front page for a while. ;)

46
andyman011 - 
Lazer MMA -
BrocksSwockRanTrane_onShane - 

Jones would be a MASSIVE favorite for this fight. I could see it being 2/5 jones 2/1 silva. If i could get close to even money on jones i would put everything i have on it. No way silva beats him.



This is WTF I want to know, the odds. I think lots of folks would back Silva. I don't know about "everything i have on it", but it will be some number, especially at even $$ or better.

By the time the fight comes around everyone will have different opinions. How would yours change if he for example kos gsp in the first. What if Jones loses against chael or whoever's after chael. Phone Post



I started betting JBJ at -600 now it's over double where I play (last I looked). If I lose that bet I may not even play for a LONG time LOL. NO, my opinion will not change I don't think LOL. That fight is the biggest mismatch for a belt in the history of MMA IMO. I like JBJ over AS via TD to Hellbow about 8.5/10 easy.

Now it's an open question if others will change there minds I guess grated though.

47

Lazer MMA - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Lazer MMA - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 


^^^^^^ Sakurai, Newton, Franklin, Hendo



 



Shit, at the time Jones fought Evans he was no different that Forrest. LHW Former Champion who only held the belt for one fight.



 



I will assume that you may need some help understanding who Sakurai/Newton were as far as great fighters as you seem to be a newer fan to the sport....



LMFAO at new to the sport! I'd bet I was fighting when your mom was breast feeding you.

Yes to Sakurai ESPECIALLY at that time!

Newton at that point had lost Matt X2, Memme. Moreover he went only 4-7 for thest of his carrier after AS, so NO (it's not like when Hendo beat him)

Hendo without weight on was never as good as with weight on. His claim to fame at 85 was the very close fight with Busta. With weight on he's 2-1 VS the HW GOATS and won an open weight tourney. So it's a very good win but not not on par I'd guess.

I'll give you Ace, don't know why there is not more respect for him

So No

He never challenged the best when they were the best. JBJ is the last shot. I'll bet even $$ the fight does not happen in the next 2 years.



LMAO @ trying to discredit Newton for his record AFTER they fought. You further your n00b by saying he lost to Matt twice knowing that he really only lost once. More proof you are just using Wiki or Sherdog fight finder.



 



"he never challenged the best".....who exactly should he have challenged that he didn't? What MW was he avoiding?



LnP just stop the troll here TY. You said you'd bet AS that is the data I wanted in this thread. If you think that was his prime (Newton) going 4-8 until he quit (including that fight with AS)fine. LOL at me meaning MW BTW. We have been over the rest, and this is not the thread. TY and have a nice day


Riiiiiiiight, the old "don't derail the thread" dicktuck....



 



You need to work on your posting skills. ;)



Newton was in his prime, and you really are a n00b. Do a little research on Newton's physical health and mental issues around that time and it may help you uinderstand why his career took a turn for the worse.



 



Moving on, you claim that Anderson "never challenged the best when they were the best"....please cite examples of who those fighters are. All you will have is fighters from a division ABOVE where Anderson fights, which is a totally retarded argument unless you also want to say that every great champion "never challenged the best when they were the best" from the division above theirs. Do you also claim that GSP never fought the best because he didn't fight Anderson/Franklin/Sonnen/Belfort/Henderson etc? How about Bones has never challenged the best because he is yet to fight JDS/Cain/Brock/Carwin/Overeem????



 



You want to end this conversation because you know how stupid it is making you look.



 

48

UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 


This is the closest thing I will get to you admitting you were wrong. I accept your apology and your attempt to decieve reality.



 



Yes, fighting those 4 opponents in one single year is better than anything Anderson has done IN ONE SINGLE YEAR. That's all though. Jones' resume is not even close to Anderson's overall.



 



If all this thread talked about was the betting line it would have died already, so you shouldn't want to stop any side conversations. It will keep your thread front page for a while. ;)



I think your point of view is both troll and a joke LnP as stated. Yes this is a betting thread, let it die then. We'll take it up when someone starts a GOAt thread.

I'm sure I'll have to defend Fedor as usual from crazy ass AS trolls (not you of course in that case) and you can deal with AS's record at that time (average level of skill of his opponents).

The funny thing is (to me), we both F'IN want the JBJ fight SO bad. LOL

49

UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Lazer MMA - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 
Lazer MMA - 
UGCTT_ Lay'n'PrayNINJA - 


^^^^^^ Sakurai, Newton, Franklin, Hendo



 



Shit, at the time Jones fought Evans he was no different that Forrest. LHW Former Champion who only held the belt for one fight.



 



I will assume that you may need some help understanding who Sakurai/Newton were as far as great fighters as you seem to be a newer fan to the sport....



LMFAO at new to the sport! I'd bet I was fighting when your mom was breast feeding you.

Yes to Sakurai ESPECIALLY at that time!

Newton at that point had lost Matt X2, Memme. Moreover he went only 4-7 for thest of his carrier after AS, so NO (it's not like when Hendo beat him)

Hendo without weight on was never as good as with weight on. His claim to fame at 85 was the very close fight with Busta. With weight on he's 2-1 VS the HW GOATS and won an open weight tourney. So it's a very good win but not not on par I'd guess.

I'll give you Ace, don't know why there is not more respect for him

So No

He never challenged the best when they were the best. JBJ is the last shot. I'll bet even $$ the fight does not happen in the next 2 years.



LMAO @ trying to discredit Newton for his record AFTER they fought. You further your n00b by saying he lost to Matt twice knowing that he really only lost once. More proof you are just using Wiki or Sherdog fight finder.



 



"he never challenged the best".....who exactly should he have challenged that he didn't? What MW was he avoiding?



LnP just stop the troll here TY. You said you'd bet AS that is the data I wanted in this thread. If you think that was his prime (Newton) going 4-8 until he quit (including that fight with AS)fine. LOL at me meaning MW BTW. We have been over the rest, and this is not the thread. TY and have a nice day


Riiiiiiiight, the old "don't derail the thread" dicktuck....



 



You need to work on your posting skills. ;)



Newton was in his prime, and you really are a n00b. Do a little research on Newton's physical health and mental issues around that time and it may help you uinderstand why his career took a turn for the worse.



 



Moving on, you claim that Anderson "never challenged the best when they were the best"....please cite examples of who those fighters are. All you will have is fighters from a division ABOVE where Anderson fights, which is a totally retarded argument unless you also want to say that every great champion "never challenged the best when they were the best" from the division above theirs. Do you also claim that GSP never fought the best because he didn't fight Anderson/Franklin/Sonnen/Belfort/Henderson etc? How about Bones has never challenged the best because he is yet to fight JDS/Cain/Brock/Carwin/Overeem????



 



You want to end this conversation because you know how stupid it is making you look.



 



Not at all LnP he has fought huge LHW's, it only the best when they were the best he would not challenge.

WTF you want to troll my thread. OK lets talk about AS's record. In truth I really have never addressed it even in full on the UG!

Lutter was was 9-3, and had 0 top ten wins (Can you see JBJ mounted by him BTW like he did AS?)

Marquardt had one fight in 2007 to earn his shot against Silva by beating Dean Lister.

Cote had no top 10 wins at all. He earned his shot by beating Almeida who had 2 fights in 4 years.

Leites got his shot by beating Marquardt by point deduction (look how he did for two rounds).

Maia earned his shot by getting KOed by Marquardt and then beating Jim Miller

Belfort had no fights at 185. He had not beaten a top fighter since 2004 (Randy via cut)


After Anderson:

Leites was cut
Maia was beaten again and dropped to 170
Sonnen had 3 losses in the UFC, and 10 losses before Anderson
Okami lost to Boetsch right after fighting Silva
Cote lost 2 in a row after Anderson, and just lost to Cung Le
Irvin went 3-5 after Anderson


Some other competition Anderson fought:

1) Outright low tier:

10-13 Daiju Takase (loss)
Ryo Chonan (loss)
4-13 Alexander Otsuka
3-10 Waldir dos Anjos
11-12 Curtis Stout

2) Overmatched/Undersized:

LWs
Camoes
Azeredo (loss)
9-14 Fontinelle
2-4 Pinheiro
Kato


0-1 Barreto
16-14 Newton
Albuquerque 0-3
Carneiro

Mid/low tier in the UFC:

15-7 Stephan Bonnar
James Irvin
Patrick Cote
13-5 Thales Leites
10-6 Travis Lutter
Chris Leben

AS is the only fighter in the GOAT discussion that LOST to a fighter with a losing record to boot.

You can't compare the average strength of opponent AS fought to JBJ. It's a F'IN JOKE!

Now you have it. Happy?

50
andyman011 -
Chimp Strength -

I'm a big AS fan (nuthugger states by UG standards (not quite Thiaguy level)), but Jones is leagues above everyone else at LHW as he's proved time and time again.  Only person out there I think can beat Anderson.  I don't see how Anderson could be favourite stepping up a weight class and facing such a dominant champion.  Odd would probably be pretty short on each, but I would expect Jones to be favourite.

So wait, the guy who decisioned Bonner is leagues above the guy who is naturally smaller and destroyed everyone he fought at lhw Phone Post

No, you've got me wrong, I was not including Anderson in that as I would refer to him as a middleweight. Imo AS in GOAT I don't give a shit what people say about level of competition. He can only beat what's put in front of him and he does every time. So called super fights don't settle a debate, the advantage of size is always slightly in someone's favour... That's why we have weight classes. Phone Post

51
Chimp Strength - 
andyman011 -
Chimp Strength -

I'm a big AS fan (nuthugger states by UG standards (not quite Thiaguy level)), but Jones is leagues above everyone else at LHW as he's proved time and time again.  Only person out there I think can beat Anderson.  I don't see how Anderson could be favourite stepping up a weight class and facing such a dominant champion.  Odd would probably be pretty short on each, but I would expect Jones to be favourite.

So wait, the guy who decisioned Bonner is leagues above the guy who is naturally smaller and destroyed everyone he fought at lhw Phone Post

No, you've got me wrong, I was not including Anderson in that as I would refer to him as a middleweight. Imo AS in GOAT I don't give a shit what people say about level of competition. He can only beat what's put in front of him and he does every time. So called super fights don't settle a debate, the advantage of size is always slightly in someone's favour... That's why we have weight classes. Phone Post



LOL at a few LBS, not spoken like a Hendo fan! AS does not have a size advantage at MW VS others? He can fight huge LHW's but not the best? There is nothing to prove?

BTW LnP backed me in a corner, I tried to avoid the conversation but he forced the issue.

Everyone knows AS is a great fighter.

52

My point is that each person fights at a particular weight class because it suits them. A person would be inclined to fight at the weight division that affords them the best circumstances to be successful. Basic logic tells us that the best at a weight class below would have some success at the weight class above, but the guy at the top of that tree will be a significantly harder task than someone mid level. Thus goes for every weight division. Would I think GSP wasn't a great champion if he lost to Anderson? No. Would I think Anderson was any less the GOAT if he lost to Jones? No. Just because Anderson has had success at LHW and is the MW champion, it doesn't mean he's the best LHW. If it worked that way we wouldn't have the weight classes we do. Ill never understand why people go on about Anderson fighting JBJ yet you rarely hear about any other champion fighting a champion. Where's the calls for MM vs Cruz, Cruz vs Aldo, Aldo vs Benson, Benson vs GSP, JBJ vs Cain? Is it only on Anderson to prove his legitimacy? You talk about the quality of Andersons opponents, yet exactly the same could be said of the opponents of other GOAT candidates.
Sorry for the FRAT rant! ;) Phone Post

53

EDIT: @ Lazers ridiculous responses:

 Riiiight so you hold Anderson to this standard that he didn't 'fight the best when they were the best" while talking about a division that is NOT HIS rather a division above his.

 

Yet Jones, even IN his division, did not 'fight the best when they were the best'. Two of your constant bragging points for Jones were not even CLOSE to what they were when they were prime. (Shogun and Page)

Yet you do not hold Jones or GSP to the same "best when they were best" for a division above their own????

 

You're being a hypocrite by saying Anderson needed to fight 'the best when they were the best' in a whole different division, unless you are also critical of Jones for not fighting the best HWs and GSP for not fighting the best MWs...

Just because Anderson took a few fights at 205 to help out the UFC does not mean that one should hold him to a different standard if you want to compare him to Jones/GSP etc...

54
Lazer MMA - 
Chimp Strength - 
andyman011 -
Chimp Strength -

I'm a big AS fan (nuthugger states by UG standards (not quite Thiaguy level)), but Jones is leagues above everyone else at LHW as he's proved time and time again.  Only person out there I think can beat Anderson.  I don't see how Anderson could be favourite stepping up a weight class and facing such a dominant champion.  Odd would probably be pretty short on each, but I would expect Jones to be favourite.

So wait, the guy who decisioned Bonner is leagues above the guy who is naturally smaller and destroyed everyone he fought at lhw Phone Post

No, you've got me wrong, I was not including Anderson in that as I would refer to him as a middleweight. Imo AS in GOAT I don't give a shit what people say about level of competition. He can only beat what's put in front of him and he does every time. So called super fights don't settle a debate, the advantage of size is always slightly in someone's favour... That's why we have weight classes. Phone Post



LOL at a few LBS, not spoken like a Hendo fan! AS does not have a size advantage at MW VS others? He can fight huge LHW's but not the best? There is nothing to prove?

BTW LnP backed me in a corner, I tried to avoid the conversation but he forced the issue.

Everyone knows AS is a great fighter.


By reading you know he FORCED my ass there! I told him this was a betting thread but he would not stop trolling and challenging me!

So I set the record straight in that that you can not compare the average opponent JBJ fight to AS's, it's MUCH higher PERIOD. Plus in fairness he must defend this record in a GOAT conversation.

LnP knows I'm not even a fan really of GSP because he FAILED to challenge AS! I was a big fan! He said he wanted it and he just dicktucked. I have one standard and your second favorite fighter lives up to it sir! Aldo and Benson said they are going to move up and JBJ too. WTF do you want?

55


LnP please leave the thread. You forced me to to talk about AS's record after I asked you to stop because this was a betting thread. But you troll would not let it TF go!!

"Riiiiiiiight, the old "don't derail the thread" dicktuck...."
"You want to end this conversation because you know how stupid it is making you look."

So for the first time ever on this site I laid it out in full. AS's record and you respond as above. That's F'IN sad bro! WTF must you troll threads looking to start trouble! I was looking for none again. Please go