Paul Sharp -
I assumed the thugs interviewed had pleaded guilty so helping someones research would be a bonus for them, also the book I read had interviews with their victims which corroborated the thugs interview. There probably still are flaws to this approach, but it seemed useful to me.
If I remember some police in the US posed as a film crew making a film on graffiti "artists" and put out posters inviting the said artists to audition. Lots of them turned out for this, and when asked how do we know your a genuine graffiti artist they went to great lengths to incriminate themselves while being openly filmed on camera.
What I mean by "submissive stance" is a drawing technique. In sparring you pretend to be tired to draw the guy in, or leave your midsection unguarded to encourage them to kick so you can catch it, pull your punches to give the impression you lack power then hit them when they get careless with their defence etc.
Same principal, someone gets in your face threatening you, you give the impression your just going to roll over and die and offer no resistance. When you see that they have bought the act then you hit them and because the punch is unexpected it is much more devestating. In the Le Banner example he would have never got the opportunity for the clean unforeseen punch had he not given his opponent the impression the fight was over.
I agree that talking someone out of fighting is fantasy land stuff, it only works if they didn't want to fight in the first place. You can only scare them out of fighting you and you won't do that effectively from a submissive posture LOL.
Paul Sharp -
Gents, to me it's all about balance. I train for the street, but I feel the sport aspect or at least sparring is necessary. Believe me, I suck at and hate sparring but I can't use that excuse when the stuff goes down.
Situational training was in another thread and no doubt LEO/Military needs it. Lately, I did ground grappling with weapons and found it both a sportive and tactical experience. I wish I could explain it better.
I'm an FMA guy mostly and have swapped moves with my BJJ friend. I help his stick game, he helps my ground game. In training against folks of other styles, I won some, lost some. I just needed the resistance and the excuse to try out my moves.
Just like I'm sure you guys know some great moves and you want/need the excuse to try them out.
Re: gun disarms and SOF. Hey I've been shot with a training gun during disarms too (got 3 disarms out of 50 literally). Good reminder this situation ain't equal but I did learn to move my torso out of the way more.
OZ is the ridiculously phoney baloney soap opera drama
that alledges to be a true represenation of prison life.
Its about as close a portrayal to real life as a Bugs Bunny cartoon is to hunting
LOL - thanks Basketball Jones
What is OZ?
Doug Stevens - I imagine bouncers experience threats to their family all the time. From what I understand they call them "home visits", there is a harrowing chapter on the subject in G Thompson's autobiography.
Bouncers, here in London, had to register themselves and list their home address in it as well as wear an ID in the club they bounce in. Anyone is allowed to look at this register, making it easy for any thug to find out where the bouncer lives!
They cope with it by knowing in advance it is going to happen and being prepared for it. Most of them have not resorted to homocide!
Imagine if after the "streetfighter" had threatened the boxer's family, the boxer had replied "get in line, your the third person today to threaten my family, the seventh this week and the twenty first this month". The threat kind of loses its power.
One thing in the book that really made me laugh - G Thompson was getting death threats on his family answering machine, this time he picked the 'phone up and a voice said "next time I see you, I'm going to kill you". He didn't want to go day after day in fear for his life and thought to himself lets get this over and done with. He replied "why wait till then, you know (place), I'll meet you their in two hours". The voice replied "I....I...I can't.. I'm.. busy today" and hung up. The death threats stopped. LMAO!
Paul Sharp - Thanks for sharing your experience & knowledge. There are too many instructors teaching street stuff invented in the safety of their own imaginations and not enough people like you.
The submissive stance is to switch your opponents awareness off so you can sucker punch them.
There was a K1 fight with Jerome Le Banner. He knocked his opponent down & the ref stopped the fight. His opponent didn't realise and got up and advanced towards Jerome Le Banner. Le Banner put his arms down, stood in a non threatening posture and said something to his opponent. His opponent relaxed and put his hands down. Le Banner then hit him with a right cross knocking him out cold. Le Banner threw lots of punches in the fight but that was the most effective because his opponent was switched off.
I think there is a Samurai saying "when the battle is over tighten your helmet straps".
Totality of Circumstance is something I have not come across in English Law. Here you are judged on two things, how YOU saw the situation (it doesn't matter what the situation actually was) and in light of that, were your actions reasonable. Reasonableness is judged by an ordinary person agreeing that THEY(magistrate/jury) would have done the same thing.
So a 140lb middle aged woman in the jury would have to picture herself performing a suplex on a 200lb man and agree that that is what she would have done.
English law allows you to hit first if YOU FELT threatened and YOU THOUGHT the person was advancing towards you. The police here will often tell you it is illegal to hit first as they are worried about the law being exploited.
I used to give voluntary advice at a law centre. Thugs exploited the law. They would start an argument, then stand in a submissive stance and say they didn't want to fight. As soon as the other person relaxed they would engage their mind with a question "can't we talk about this?" and then hit them. They would then claim they didn't want to fight and felt they were about to be attacked. This bothered me, especially as was sitting alone with them in a very small room with an alarm button that didn't work.
OZ IS NOT REAL?!?!
LMAO at Luis. . .it was easier before the apes could speak.
4R, Yes we do train that. If you understand Aliveness then you will understand how, if you don't, you don't. One of the SBG Coaches that posts on this forum has the best 'multiple opponents' story I have ever heard, which is how he wound up with a gig teaching the SWAT Team. I will leave it up to him if he chooses to elaborate. You can also see a good multiple opponents section featuring Machado Black Belt Rick Williams and Rigan Machado on the ABJ video series.
Paul makes an excellent point. The most important part of self defense is awareness, and the most important part of awarness is just knowing where the hell you are. As an example. . .I could be armed with an mp5, pepper spray, four clipit knives, an asp baton, and a few grenades, but if I wandered into the wrong neighberhood in South Africa, I still might not make it out alive!
So instead I never drive myself anywhere there, I have a driver/bodyguard, NUNO, and Nuno takes me where I need to go when Rodney is busy. Neither Nuno or I are usually armed, and we do fine. Thats because Nuno knows where he can go. Know your neighberhood folks. Neon Knight has also been a big help at the dance clubs.
Ola! Nuno "quick shot"!
...damned talking apes...
And just remember.... I'M STILL RIGHT!!!!
Hardcore baby, HARDCORE! Paul covered most of the important points, but he forgot one very important thing...MAKE SURE YOU GET YOURSELF A GOOD LAWYER. Everyone's heard stories of victims that had their houses broken into, but the burgler hurt himself in the process and sucessfully sued the victims.
big juicy kisses
Desnudo. . .if that wasn't a ray gun what do you think it was? Maybe you have watched one to many episodes of OZ.
"Laughing Lion, is this a fantasy you have been having? Maybe you have seen one to many episodes of OZ. "
Actually, a similar scenario happened to Vanderlei Silva recently. I don't think LL has been watching OZ too much. It's reality.
2 guys held Silva up at knife-point, asked for his car, and Silva gave them his car.
True story. I think it's in the adcombat.com archives.
Does SBG train against multiple opponents in an alive manner? Serious question, no trolling.
I am going to throw in my two cents here because one of the scenarios LL used was very interesting. The story about the boxer and the street thug. If the boxer had been some famous "street fighter" instead of a boxer the outcome would be the same. How would "street knowledge" help protect his wife and family if the thug wanted to harm them? The whole thing has nothing to do with fighting! It only has to do with lack of morals. What would a great street fighter do, short of homicide, that would change the threat to his family? These are redicules analogies. What may or may not be said has nothing to do with the outcome of a fight. The real point should be that once the talking stops who is going to win the physical confrontation. I put my money on the athlete! Anything else does not fit into the debate regarding sport and street.