Hi LL, Not yet, but hopefully we will have an affiliated Gym there sometime soon. I will be in London, Denmark, and Ireland in April for seminars so hopefully I will see you there. I'll update the site with all the contact info asap.
-Matt Thornton
www.straightblastgym.com
"People who have trained ONLY in semi contact pull their punches even in a real fight."
I haven't read this thread yet, but I will. I just noticed this sentece. In the mean time I will tell you that from PERSONAL and second hand experience that this is total rubbish. When a man wants to hit someone as hard as he wants because he's pissed,.....he will. Carry on.
KWJ: Where as I have seen the opposite, if you haven't been taught to drive your punches through a target...
But we're arguing experience x experience, we're both right in those cases.
Laughing Lion makes Pauls Sharps point better then anything else written. Many people don't have the maturity to see the difference between the beauty, and self knowledge that can be gained through combat athletics. And the cowardice and lack of depth that is found in the mentality of crack heads, mobsters, and "streetfighters".
The sad part is the people that can't grasp that distinction are almost alwats the ones that need combat athletics the most. The anger and fear in them is pallpable.
PS: In regards Sharp, people should know he is a cop in what I would call a VERY bad part of the Chicago suburbs, (sorry Paul), and trying to explain to him the 'realities' of the 'real' violent world, is like explaining piano to Mozart. It's redundent, and shows a level of ignorance. A lot of our people our police officers (note: These are the GOOD guys, not the MOBSTERS), and many are former SF military. Adam and Rory Singer have bounced for Years. As did I for nearly four Years, (before I realized it was not worth the money).
This topic has been gone over SO many times on our Q&A at straightblastgym.com here is a small section.
Question: A lot of people seem to ask about the difference between what you do, and training purely for self defense, or 'streetfighting'. I have heard your answer many times, but can you articulate again the
differences.
"That is probably the one question I am asked more then any other. Of course my answer is always
the same. As Luis says, "just add dirt". It is a simple process to add foul tactics into the structure of a trained combat athlete. I sleep real well at night knowing that anyone that has trained with me, and is an
Instructor is more then capable of defending themselves. I have worked (street stuff) with all of them, and I know what they can all do. If anything I feel sorry for the poor bastard that makes the mistake of trying them out!
But there is a bigger issue for me when it comes to training people to be quote un quote
"streetfighters". There is a mentality that often accompanies these questions that I am very wary of.
When I read these questions in e-mails, or online, and then I actually meet these "streetfighting" guys in
person at my seminars they are almost always the runts of the litter. The weaklings, emotionally, physically, etc. Probably social outcasts to a degree. Not good childhood's, etc. I don't think you need to be ashamed of that, but I do think you need to acknowledge it and work past it. The problem is that with a
"streetfighting" mindset and motivation they will probably never work through, and evolve past these
issues. You look past the streetfighter bravado and look into their eyes and you see a scared little boy.
I'll tell you a story. I went to a very well known "mercenary" convention sometime ago at the request of
one of the vendors. They had asked me to check out the convention in the hopes of getting me to teach
a self defense class there at some point. As I walked around I was utterly amazed at how many geeks were assembled in one room. I don't mean to be rude. . .but you had all these guys dressed in camouflage fatigues talking about "tactics" and real world self defense, and guns and knives, and all this crap. And yet I am looking at all of them and I am saying to myself that if I actually had to go into combat these would be the last people on earth I would ever want to take with me! They were ALL scared little boys.
Now I submit to you that all this tactical streetfighting stuff these guys do does nothing but serve as a crutch, which stands in the way of further personal development and evolution. They stay scared little kids inside because they cling to this.
However, take one of these guys and put him in my Gym, or any Gym within the SBG tribe, and he will be forced to change. He is going to get tapped out, knocked out, slammed down, tapped out again, and then tapped out once more. He will be beaten by people much smaller then him, and he will be forced into a position where he realizes that there is absolutely no way he can prevent it, and it will all be done by "nice" people. Guys who don't walk around pretending like they are SF commandos, or 'billy bad asses'. He's going to get his ass kicked by family men and mature males! (laughs). His ego will have no place to hide. It won't be able to hide in the camouflage fatigues and nonsense of "streetfighting" anymore. He will either quit, or his ego will be pounded down, and then built back up through hard effort, and ACTUAL skill. Slowly he will reach a point where he is the one doing the tapping and
striking. He will be more comfortable with himself, less afraid, more confident, happier, gentler, and just evolve in general as a human being. That is the SBG way.
Now, I could make allot of money off these guys because for better or worse the Gym has a reputation for being 'real' because people know that everyone listed on that family tree can to a certain degree make it all work. They can all fight. There is not one person on that list that would be an easy day for anyone. And that's what most of these 'streetfighting' guys want. They want people to 'fear' them. Because if people fear them, they hope people will then leave them alone, and they wont be forced into confrontation. So knowing that as I do, I could pander to that instinct in them and make allot of money in the process. The problem is that I know in my heart if I did that you would be able to come back in a year and see that same person. The same scared little kid. So I cannot do that. I have to stay true to myself and I won't pander to that weakness in them.
My instinct as a coach and teacher, when I see someone like that, is to steer that type of person
towards athleticism, and self education. . . .because I know that will help them evolve as people as well
as fighters. And then, when I see them a Year later they will be completely different people. And that
will make us both happy. "
Mr. Sharp,
Well said.
May I repost your comments elsewhere? I assure you, I will give you the credit.
Regards,
Paul
LL:
you bring up many interesting points. I certainly understand "does MMA prepare you for 'comebacks'?". Let me explain briefly:
I'm originally from the Philippines, and streetfights there are not about KO's. KNIVES ARE EVERYWHERE!! The last thing you want to do is roll around on the pavement with any of these dudes. Also, if you end up beating these fellows, they do find out where you live, or hang out. They'll get you eventually.
Although "sports" oriented MA training doesn't presume to cover everything that can happen in realistic fighting situations, I think this type of training prepares the fighter VERY ADEQUATELY. A "sports" oriented fighter is, first of all, almost always in tip-top shape, which is certainly necessary to either run away from a band of thugs, or completely eradicate them altogether. Secondly, a "sports" fighter is very used to receiving blows at full force, so I don't think such an individual will be thrown when the excrement hits the fan.
I will agree that "sports" training doesn't cover what you've mentioned in the above post...but I think that is up to the individual to cover on his own. I don't know of any martial system that has a "molotov cocktail" counter, or "how to become invisible after a streetfight", so this type of education is left completely to the individual.
Most of all, just because a particular methodology doesn't cover EVERYTHING that can happen, it doesn't mean that it is no good. EVERY METHOD HAS ITS LIMITS, EVEN REALISTIC ONES. However, to quote D. Rumsfeld:
"Just because we can't do everything, doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything."
ATTEMPT TO CREATE DEBATE.
MMA training is a million miles apart from the reality of the street.
In Geoff Thompson's autobiography "Watch my back", he recounts an encounter between a "streetfighter"(thug) and a British midlands boxing champion. As they squared up to fight the streetfighter told the boxer that he knew where he lived, where his wife worked and where the boxer's kids went to school. He then told the boxer if he backed out or didn't let himself take a beating, harm would come to his family. The boxer, scared for his family, allowed himself to be beaten by the streetfighter.
In MMA the fight ends with a decision, KO or submission and the figters often go away as friends after the match. If you beat up some low life scum who gets off intimidating people, it doesn't end there.
Does MMA prepare you for the "comebacks", bricks or petrol bombs through your window in the middle of the night, constant death threats to you and your friends and family on the 'phone and answering machine. Are your friends and family prepared for that?
Does MMA training take the law into account? An MMA fighter/promoter here in the UK fought off an attack by three men putting two in hospital. He was then convicted and spent 6 mths in prison. After that the police decided to try and pin a host of other things on him. The judge threw the case out but that was after a year, and the MMA fighter/promoter was now suffering from clinical depression and on medication.
If you were going to fight a BJJ fighter under NHB rules in the Octagon would you want to know everything you could about the rules, the fighter and his fighting style and where you will be fighting - of course. Would you stand much chance if you didn't know anything about the rules and knew nothing about the figher - no.
Does MMA teach the tactics and deceptions that muggers, streetfighters(thugs) & rapists use to make sure their victim has no reasonable chance to fight back - no. Does that mean they can rob, rape & beat up an MMA fighter as easily as anyone else - yes.
Etc etc etc etc etc .... you get my point.
MrSharp,
Great post.
I wonder about a couple of things though...
Why are you and your gym mates getting into so many fights? Are they really self defense situations or are they manly fights?
Your second piece on this thread addresses the character development and transformative power of martial art...kudos.
I train and have competed in BJJ I also train self defense. We spend alot of time training to escape and survive...not to win. I concur that many so called self defense people have a training method that will never give them the physical skills necessary to protect themselves...I also see alot of "sport" arts that never teach that self respect is not about winning.
If it is correct that you are a police officer then I submit that your mentality when faced with a threat is justifiably different than a civilians. You move toward a threat and there is less concern for legal repercussion..as a civilian...to expose my family to the threat of civil suit or my absence from work due to injury that was AVOIDABLE is not my first choice.
I like a self defense study that includes full contact scenario training...it does the same to over inflated "mercenary wannabe" egos as MMA training and as a bonus covers the legal and diffusing aspects of self defense.
Humbly,
Gene
Paw,
Dude, you're in the Paul club so whats mine is yours!
-Paul "building the Paul club one Paul at a time" Sharp
www.paulonly.org
Archive this please Joe
*Applauds* Great post Matt.
I forgot to mention my good friend Luis G. Luis spent nearly ten Years bouncing in the clubs of FLA.
This entire debate is a straw man. Adding knives, biting, gouging, multiple opponents, scrotum pulling(Adam's move), etc. . doesn't change the Aliveness factor. It doesn't change the need for a resisting opponent, hence the word 'sport', at all.
The ear of "My art is to deadlt to spar", or "We train for the street, not for sport!", as an excuse for dead patterns, and one and two step sparring, is over. Nobody with even moderate intelligence will buy that bs anymore.
This has become such a popular argument that I am adding an entire section on the website that will include articles, pics, stats, etc, written by Luis, Paul, myself, etc, that will address all these issues.
-Matt Thornton
www.straightblastgym.com
Neon Knight - From what smartmonkey has said my comments don't apply to SBG training. I do believe until convinced otherwise that you fight the way you train. EG. People who have trained ONLY in semi contact pull their punches even in a real fight.
A Karate tournament (semi-contact)in France fell into chaos when several teams got into an argument and started to fight each other. Nobody got hurt because they all pulled their punches due to muscle memory.
Boxers who take up semi contact constantly get disqualified. As soon as they feel under pressure muscle memory takes over and they throw full power shots.
Traditional MA'ists may say things like, if a grappler took me down in the street I would take a pen out of my pocket and stick it in his eye. Even if they got the chance in real life they wouldn't do it. Under pressure you revert to instinct. It would only work if they drilled it with a grappler over and over until it became instinct.
Any chance of a straight blast gym opening in London, England. My misconceptions on SBG training seem to have been blown away.
Laughing Lion,
Based on your last post we are in agreement. I teach a method I call the ABC's of self defense. A= Awareness and the most important factor, B= diving Board, a section I will get into another time, and finally C= conflict, this is where all the actual Alive training comes in. I will be shooting a tape on the SBG self defense/ streetfighting stuff, sometime this Year.
Just understand that your reasoning is also used by the OJKD guys, Wing Chun people, Traditional people, and JKD'rs that still do wing chun based trapping, (to name a few), to justify a training method that is dead as a doornail. So as someone interested in functional MA's and helping people with self defense, it would do you well to clarify your position so you don't get lumped in with. . .well streetfighting is not MMA thats why trapping is for street not sport, or thats why burning elephant Gung Fu is for street, not sport, etc.
Everyone training at my Gym goes through the ABC's. But as far as the fun part, the spiritual part, the really life changing part, that all stems from the Alive, 'sport' like sparring and drilling we do.
In terms of tapes? Hard to say, check out one set and if you like them try the other.
take care
-Matt Thornton
www.straightblastgym.com
Combat athletics teach one to punch, elbow, knee and wrestle, in a dynamic fashion against a resisting opponent.
Therefore, what exactly is it that these "street" arts claim to be teaching?
After all, "A punch is just a punch", etc., etc.. If that punch comes in an "alive" format when training, you're better able to deal with it all the way around.
I just don't understand those who still don't "get" aliveness. Also, why is it that it could be assumed that any SBG trained guy wouldn't "stun and run" himself?
Matt made an excellent point about MMA guys being "street smart". Why it is assumed that athletes aren't street smart is beyond comprehension.
The reason these debates rage on is because each individual has a different definition of what is "street" and what is "sport."
"Street" can be anywhere from a tussle with a loud mouth on a street corner or it could be a vicious rape.
You can't really define "street" in any one specific term becuase people from different backgrounds and experiences.
A loudmouth clown on the street who decides to pick on somebody is essentially challenging some one to a derivative of a "sportive" match. Think about it. he isn't stealing,
or attempting to murder. He's basically challenging someone to a fight.
A rapist is a completely different animal. Not sportive mentality, but it RAPE INVOLVES THE GROUND AND GRAPPLING!
So You can not separate sport from street as sport is based on experience, range, and conditioning, but you have to educate yourself to WHAT DIFFERENCES THERE ARE BETWEEN SPORTIVE COMBAT AND STREETFIGHTING AND CRIMINAL ASSUALT. Then the differences don't matter and things just blend together. You are just training!
Its all about serious fun
On the subject of smartness I a read an article a while ago about an international chess master who while walking through a park saw a street chess player betting anyone he could beat them in a game of chess.
The chessmaster took the bet and they begun playing.
During the game the street chess player shouted abuse "is that your best move you pussy" "come on move, only a moron needs this long to think" he banged on the table and did everything he could to distract the chessmaster while focussing on the most successful distractions and intensifying them by reading the chessmasters body language.
In the end he got into the chessmasters head, stopped him using all his skill and knowledge and beat him easily.
The fact that the chessmaster was smart didn't help him. He trained in a polite gentlemanly envirnmont where such behaviour was frowned on. He was totally unprepared and lost in a game in which he was 100x better than his opponent.
Of course if the chessmaster learnt to do to the same he would be almost immposible to beat in "streetchess".
Smartmonkey - before I piss you off totally:
I going to order your second functional JKD set. Is it worth me also getting the first set as well? Do I need it to fully enjoy the second set.
Thanks.
PLEASE NOTE: I AM PLAYING DEVILS ADVOCATE AND NOT BEING A SMARTASS (not intentionally anyway)
what I can't help noticing is that the best self-protection books I have read have little or no grappling, punching or kicking techniques in them.
In the street there are no "rules". Rules are not just there to protect fighters, they are mainly there to the make the fight "FAIR" and therefore a "sport" so the best man wins. No rules means a not fair fight so the worst man wins, the exact opposite to MMA.
Thugs, muggers & rapists are skillful but not at punching, kicking & grappling. They are skillful at lying, deception, duping & manipulation. They will manipulate the situation so as to deny you any chance to use your fighting skills. In the same way that Royce denied stand up fighters their skills and exploited their ignorance of BJJ & groundfighting & Vale Tudo style fighting in general, so will a criminal use their deception skills, and your ignorance of them, to rob you of your MMA skills.
EXAMPLE: An MMA fighter who is a master of every martial art on the planet, can deadlift 1200lbs, bench 900lbs and run 100m in 7 seconds is walking down the road. He is approached by two men who politely ask him for the time. He smiles and looks down at his watch. While he is distracted they take their knives out of their jackets hold them to his throat and grab hold of him so he can't run away. The MMA fighter looks up and realises he is in a hopeless situation and does what ever they ask.
The next day the two muggers are walking down the road and notice a frail old woman sitting on a bench. The old woman thinks a martial artist is someone who paints pictures of soldiers, she can just about deadlift a shopping bag, bench press a blanket and the last time she ever ran was in 1986.
As they approach her she notices they look nervous and are looking around for any witnesses. She calls out to them "excuse me young men, why are there so many policemen and police cars going by, has there some sort of accident?" The muggers freeze with the word police stuck in their heads. The situation just doesn't feel right so they abandon the mugging. The devious old woman defeats multiple opponents armed with knives, something martial artists with their narrow limited view of self protection claim is impossible.