"EXAMPLE: An MMA fighter who is a master of every martial art on the planet, can deadlift 1200lbs, bench 900lbs and run 100m in 7 seconds is walking down the
road. He is approached by two men who politely ask him for the time. He smiles and looks down at his watch. While he is distracted they take their knives out of
their jackets hold them to his throat and grab hold of him so he can't run away. The MMA fighter realises he is in a hopeless situation and does what ever they ask."
Laughing Lion, is this a fantasy you have been having? Maybe you have seen one to many episodes of OZ.
How about this one:
(Bug eyed aliens from planet whattheF@#k land while you are hunting in the woods. One grabs you from behind, while the other points his death ray gun at you. All your MMA skilss are now useless. . .what do you do now smart guy?!)
Seriously. . .WHY do you make the assumption that a skilled, strong man trained in MMA is any less 'streetsmart' then you or crack head bob is?
Taking my friend and current heavyweight Champ Randy Couture as an example. . Randy is very street smart. Why do you assume that he isnt. Are you really incapable of seeing that you can be both a skilled, conditioned, and well trained athlete, AND streetsmart?
Can you not see that these things are NOT incompatible?
Since this thread was started by Sharp let me share with you that I call Paul Sharp myself to get the low down on the latest scumbag tactics. He seems to be pretty wired in to the latest tricks, such as the 'raptor' etc, as he is always arresting these idiots.
Also, (and Neon Night may want to elaborate on this)our South African SBG brothers are tuned into street trash tactics WAY beyond anything that has hit the USA yet. The homicide and car jacking stats in SA are off the charts right now.
In closing, news flash. . .these 'thugs' you mentioned are not the brightest guys in the world. Certainly not rocket scientists, BUT they are smart eneough to know you never pick on anyone strong, healthy, and confident. First rule of the predator, pick the weak ones out. Athletes would not be high on that list. Rickson and Couture are obvious carnivors. . .even to these mental midgets.
If your point is that being AWARE, of the bad guys tactics and your environment is the most improtant thing. . .then you are 100% correct. We all know that. It doesn't change the fundemental training need of Aliveness, resisting opponents, and conditioning.
-Matt Thornton
www.straightblastgym.com
Smartmonkey-
"If your point is that being AWARE, of the bad guys tactics and your environment is the most improtant thing. . .then you are 100% correct"
That is my point.
What I am suggesting is that MMA is a support system and the THIRD line of defence.
Awareness is the first line of defence.
Stun & run is the second line of defence.
You tell your attacker you don't want to fight, stand in a seemingly submissive positive engage their brain with a question "can't we talk about this?" then strike them while they are distracted & run.
This approach can be justified much more easily in court. Witnesses will hopefully confirm that you said you didn't wan't to fight and ran away at the first opportunity. A suplex that drops your opponent on his head is much harder to justify.
Third line of defence is MMA : if you can't run.
Fourth line is knowledge of the law.
Eg most martial artists don't realise the effect adrenaline has on their memory and give inaccurate statements to the police after an event. Six mths later that statement is read out in court and they are made out to be a lier or at least unreliable in anything they say.
What I am saying is that in the same way martial artists used to only train stand up and neglect ground fighting, they are still putting too much emphasis on punching, kicking & grappling when talking about self protection.
I read an excellent book recently called "streetwise" by Peter Consterdine recently. It's about 300 pages in tight note form and 90% is on awareness.
Most martial artists will say awareness is important but would be unable to write more then a page on the subject.
In order not to get armbarred you need to know what an armbar is and how it works before you devise a defence to it.
If you teach self protection the first step should be to interview as many criminals as you can and let them show off about how clever their methods are, then you can teach people how to counter them. How many self-defence instructors have done this? The only book I have seen so far that does is "Dead or Alive" by Geoff Thompson another good book.
From what you said in your last post it seems we are in some agreement though.
I understand that you know more on the subject then me but the fact that someone can kick my ass won't stop me sparring with them, just the opposite.
I think that "sport vs. street" is not as black and white as it sounds. Perhaps other individuals out there want to make it that way, but I don't think that's really the case. Both methodologies intersect at some of the most important aspects of martial training (i.e. sparring, pristine physical conditioning, etc.), so whatever differences there are are, IMHO, very few.
I think both approaches develop a fighter/martial athlete that can "mutate" into whatever the situation might be, sportive or not.
Adam,
I don't know about you but that's what? Some 30 or more odd hours to get here.
-Luis
Still LMAO@ "sometimes I crack me up..."
Anyhow, damn straight post.
Adam,
Won't be in Portland because I wouldn't be able to train (I'm actually finally healing) and I just spent plenty on the editing suite for the SBG kids and LEO tapes. All my time is now spent at the gym, learning how to use the program, and working on the SBG book.
I look forward to seeing you guys soon though. I will be visiting Sharp in a couple of months for some LEO footage.
-Luis
PS
The "ball" is still there and I have more test to run on March 10th. It may not be a hernia.
Dear Mr. Sharp. What on earth are you trying to say? That an out of shape person who has no attributes, no understanding of ranges, and has never fought for more then 2 minutes making contact. But has a red hair across his ass Can't beat you? I find that hard to believe? Nice one.Thanks for the laugh. By the way!
J.M.
Good post. I used to be one the "yeah, but in a street fight" people. I had never heard of SBG until I saw the article in Black Belt a few months ago. Honestly I didn't really understand what the article was saying, but I checked out Matt Thorton's web site and everything he said made alot more sense than anything else I had heard. I have visited most of the SBG sites listed here and they all look like awesome places to train. Maybe there will be a SBG in Charlotte in the future.
Most of the guys seem to be aspiring comedians as well, is that part of the training? -j/k
Paul, It's guys like you that made me decide to carry a small bell at all times. When I'm fighting one of those "sport-fighters" I just ring the bell and wait for them to stop pounding on me and go to their corner. Then WHAM! I run them over w/ my car when they aren't looking! Leif "picking on Paul" Ekholm ;-P
lol@ekholm
why didn't i think of that, carry a bell?
lol@ekholm
Paul,
Damn good post....for an athlete. :)
-Luis
I posted this elsewhere but thought you guy's would enjoy a laugh.
As someone that is part of a group of guy's that are frequently dismissed as simply sport fighters I hope I have something useful to add.
Why the assumption that you can beat us without rules when you can't beat us with rules?
Those rules happen to protect both of us, it would seem that most have forgotten that small yet significant point. Whats keeping me from maiming you for life when I get position and you obviously can't get away? The rules. Take those rules away and I'll curb your ass right after I knock/choke you out.
Why the assumption that a combat sports athlete will try to take the fight to the ground?
My last two fights, outside the recent gym incident, were started and finished on my feet. Another gym member also finished a fight this past weekend while standing outside a BK in the downtown area. One cross was all it took. We have had gym members do some real damage in street fights using aspects of their Clinch game. A close friend and gym member dumped his girls ex on his bean right in front of their house. Beautiful Suplex according to those present, the ex had to be taken away by ambulance. A Suplex will leave you seeing stars on a throwing mat, I can't imagine the damage done on concrete. Yes that one went to the ground, but only so the ground could be used as an immoveable object.
Why the assumption that we don't train and carry weapons?
I've completed numerous firearms courses, several members of the gym are MP-5, Handgun, Carbine and Shotgun instructors. We have one member that was a MOUT instructor in the military and another that is one of the few certified to teach Rapid Deployment Tactics. Throw in numerous certs for O/C, stick, less lethal and some other minutia and I think we have a handle on the weapons/tactics thing. We are also installing a lock box so that those that carry on a daily basis have a secure area to place their weapon(s) while training.
Why the assumption that my opponents friends will get involved?
Don't you think my friends, that also happen to be athletes, are just about salivating at the thought of my opponents buddies getting involved? Why should I have all the fun? And just who do you think will have a better handle on using the bottles, chairs and tables that are in the vicinity? I would imagine that an athlete that can Power Clean 375 could probably swing a mean table. In another event at a club in the west side of Chicago one of our guy's used a table to plow two of the clubs bouncers into a wall breaking one bouncers collar bone. Think of the damage he could have done if he only would train realistically.....
To sum it up lets look at it this way. What kind of guy usually does well in sports?
Competitive, highly motivated, focused, pain tolerant, highly conditioned, strong and has way too much testosterone.
Now take that guy, and tell him he can bite, eye gouge, pick something up and hit his opponent with it, and you have an animal that most people can not handle. I see it on a regular basis in my gym and the other SBG's around the country.
Thank God for sport and honorable competition otherwise these guy's would have no legit resource to blow off steam. They would have to resort to dojo invasions for giggles.
-Paul "Diplomat" Sharp
www.straightblastgym.com
www.onedragon.com
www.hardcoregym.net, 'cause Adam can't go with the flow.
Ahhhhhhhhh! I love it!!!!!
C.J.
Thanks Paul.
I will be wiser and more skeptical in the future.
I suppose I bought into it because two people I knew where mugged in exactly the way the book described, but of course it doesn't follow that the rest is accurate.
Thanks for giving me/us your time. It's very rare for me to get the chance to talk with anyone with your experience.
By the way, What is TOC?
Thanks.
The basic lesson is 1) Never fight fair 2) Win at all costs.
xoxoxoxo
Paul -
I spent two days a week giving general legal advice there while I did research for my Master's Degree in Law. It can't give a worthwhile answer to your question because I didn't get that many criminal cases. As I was near the airport I was mostly dealing with Asylum seekers from Somalia at the time.
Even when I did get criminal law cases I was only the first port of call, so all I could do is give general advice on their case and then pass them on to a lawyer who specialises in the area. The few thugs I did get were clued up on the law and just wanted me to advise them on which law firm to use.
Here in England everyone tries to avoid jury service. There is a joke that the definition of a jury is twelve people too dumb to come up with excuse for not doing jury service. Amoungst the people that end up on jury service there will always be some that are definitely not ordinary or reasonable. In one murder trial here the jury tried to "contact" to victim and ask him who the murderer was!
I never saw anyone abide by the rules of confidentiality. As soon as they started work on an interested case it would be their topic of conversation in the bar that evening.
How do you stay honest and still attract students?
Most people want to be decieved if the deception makes them feel better. I would guess most people who go to a psychic know it's bullshit but they fight against it because their life would be better if someone could tell them the future and allow them to speak to a late relative or friend. For most people it doesn't matter if its fake as long as it takes the fear and pain away.
Paul, be good to El Jeffe, he has powers!
-Matt Thornton
www.straightblastgym.com
"Take those rules away and I'll curb your ass right after I knock/choke you out."
"We have had gym members do some real damage in street fights using aspects of their Clinch game. A close friend and gym member dumped his girls ex on his bean right in front of their house. Beautiful Suplex according to those present, the ex had to be taken away by ambulance."
"Don't you think my friends, that also happen to be athletes, are just about salivating at the thought of my opponents buddies getting involved? Why should I have all the fun?"
"In another event at a club in the west side of Chicago one of our guy's used a table to plow two of the clubs bouncers into a wall breaking one bouncers collar bone."
"Thank God for sport and honorable competition otherwise these guy's would have no legit resource to blow off steam. They would have to resort to dojo invasions for giggles."
I thought the SBG had a much different philosophy than to breed people like this. With all due respect (and I believe that respect is due) I think this detracts from the quality of martial arts as a whole, and especially JKD, no matter which angle you approach it from.
I thought MA was supposed to make you a person better than you were before you began, not merely a more efficient animal.
Sorry, this is not meant to be insulting, trolling or anything else, I'm just really sad to read this.