Ethical debates on a MMA public forum among Aussies.
Jesus, is it only me or are we pushing the bounds of credibility.
"Does that mean if I get caught speeding(on a side not, SUCKED IN KYM!) should I not be allowed to fight? as well as if I beat my kids/wife?"
Assuming that you're winning vs your wife and kids, then all is okay, however if they are regularly beating you then you should demand drug tests.
professionalism
promoters endorsing the usage of performance enhancing drugs, which for the most part are illegal to distribute and possess?
hmm makes you think about CREDIBILITY
RZA,
Are you stating I promote the use of steroids? Not in XFC. To my knowledge we are the only MMA org in Australia with a drug policy. Professionalism and credibility now theres 2 words that are usualy spat out by one person re me ;)
From XFC rules
"
Drug Policy
The XFC reserves the right to randomly test contracted athletes for Performance enhancing drugs as defined by the Australian Sports Drug Agency."
Justin
I'd have serious reservations about the professionalism of anyone who implies that performance enhancing drugs are an acceptable option while also maintaining that they (performance enhancing drugs) have no place in their business.
If such comments could somehow be justified, then one would have to question that person's common sense and creditability.
One of my favorite quotes:
"He had occasional flashes of silence, that made his conversation perfectly delightful."
Sydney Smith (1771 - 1845), referring to Macaulay
Just a comment on the original post - the article is hardly a "how to.." article. It neglects to state cycle length and doses. The only thing it does name is roughly how much STH is being used as he notes that not many of the guys can afford it. I just helped a guy win at Stawell last weekend and can tell you that he spent $2750 for a 2 week supply.
Secondly the THG thing - I find the whole thing realy funny. About 6 years ago Balco labs and tha mian guy invloved - Victor Conte - were being touted as genius. He'd created a delivery method for zinc and magnesium that made it absorb better (Zinc and magnesium supplementation alone can result in an increase of 5% of indogenous testosterone). Now he's gone one step further and created a prohormone (think of andro) that actually works so well it really does have steroid like effects and they ban it and try to ruin him. All he did was finally find a legal, safe way to make the body faster and stronger.
Re: taking it now. Why bother? there's already a test for it. the top guys are onto something else. I could tell you what but that'd be no fun now would it?
On a more important note, if impress the heck out of some sweet young thing with my staying power, but I am actually benefiting from recent ingestion of vitamin V am I a drug cheat ?
Tank
Yeah, OK, my bad - it wasn't really a how-to...
The big problem with the whole 'it's illegal" thing is the way laws are made - a bunch of old silver-spoon farts, who won a dubious popularity contest, get together and decide what everyone else is and isn't allowed to do, while always thinking about the lowest common denominator and how each decision will make them look. And if something is 'legal' today, there's little to say that won't change tomorrow. The world we live in though, I guess...
The whole argument against 'drugs in sport' started out as "we're concerned about the wellbeing of the athletes", but this thinly-veiled smokescreen was quickly abandoned for the "cheating" angle. The whole "seen to be clean" thing is just another moralistic, politically-correct load of horse-puckey.
I really don't know why this issue worries me at all, but for some reason it seems to...
My opinion is if they are banned in an organisation (cant group MMA together as 90% of the groups have no policies) - Then dont use them it's cheating. In breach of the rules.
If the organisation does not ban/monitor or control them, what is the issue?
Justin
haha
what an intensive and strict anti-doping policy you have there... nice to see that your organisation reserves the right to TEST for performace enhancing drugs.. yet nowhere have you indicated that XFC are willing to PUNISH people who return positive tests..
"Re cheating.. My opinion is if the sport you are competing in says it's banned well then it's banned. If you are competing in an organisation without a drug policy then fuck it pill up!"
I did a 28 day cycle of cortisone (oral) last October.
Lost 5kg in a month!
Seriously.
;)
Gerald.
Gerald, I think you were on the wrong page of your MIMS.
You want Steroids - Gonadal, not Steroids - Cortico
Best you fix that for next time...
;-)
Tank
Stupid MIMS (huh?)
I'm a juicer now!
;)
G.
[ducks to dodge Gerald's 'roid rage]
MIMS:
http://www.mims.com.au/
Very interesting coffee table book.
Some of the side effects of all that shit that your average GP will prescribe are SCARY !
My dentist RX'ed some antibiotics for an infected tooth, I looked them up and they are used for "brain infections" and all sorts of scary stuff.
Of course I took them anyway, because doctors always know best.
Tank
"Kids, drugs are bad mmmKay"
Obviously a few guys on this thread know a fair bit about the subject - quick question:
We've seen a few well known guys (BJJ & MMA) head from Brasil to train/live in the States who 'mysteriously' put on 5kg in relatively little time without really seeing any improvement (usually the opposite) in their performance. Is this the nature of the drug when used in BJJ/MMA or incorrect usage?
Its only the nature of drug use in conjunction with MMA/BJJ training when the athletes or coaches don't really know what the fuck they're doing. Too many people ask drug pig body builders what they should be taking.
As someone already pointed out bodybuilders are drug abusers. A "good" growth cycle for one of these guys starts at 1000mg per week of gear (your body produces around 100mg a week) so they'll take roughly at least 10 times what their own body produces naturally.
In comparison the east germans, when at their most dominant, would have cycles consisting of a total of around 1400mg taken over an up to 6 week period (roughly = to 200mg per week). They would run 4 cycles per year of varying lengths depending on what comps were being entered that year. Total use for a whole year would be only around 3000mg - a bodybuilder will do that in 3 weeks! And you'd be hard pressed to say that the east germans didn't have a few athletes performing well in a variety of events.
A couple of things to consider as well:
Performance enhancing drugs != Anabolic steroids There are a lot more things in the PED category and it's "horses for courses" (so to speak) sepending on what you are trying to achieve.
The key to cheating with drugs is not the drugs, it's the expert advice you get which allows you to use the right drugs in the right way.
High level athletes that use drugs aren't looking for 20% performace increases, they are looking for the last 2-3% that will get them over the line just that little bit quicker. The rest of their skill is all legit hard training.
Tank
Justin do you or have you ever had cause to test any of the XFC contract fighters?
I find it funny in the olypics how a guy can finish 4th and they random test him but 1,2 & 3 don't get tested. I'm a bit of the opinion who gives a fuck if they cheated and still din't win.
Also agre with Justin as in if the event you are fighting has a drug policy then you are cheating but if they don't your not.
What about recovery after injury ?
It was mentioned already, and I think that in sports where out and out strength isn't neccessary, that's where you'll find people tempted to use them.
If I have just been out for 6 weeks with an injury, my time to be back at my peak will probably be aided by steroid use. It won't make me bigger/stronger/faster then I was, but it will let me get back to "par" that much quicker.
Just another scenario that may cause an some to "cheat"
Tank
What about a guy like Evander Holifield (who has fought as low as lightheavy)(again not saying he uses just trying to explain a point) and say he did use roids to go from cruiserweight, gain the extra weight so he could go to heavyweight to fight a guy like Foreman, Bowe, Tyson ect ect. Would he have used the drugs because he didn't train enough and was scared to face these much bigger guys? If he was scared wouldn't it just be easier to stay at lightheavy to cruiserweight?
Again i just used names to show a smaller guy going up against a heavier guy not idea if they used or not!