lol @ blake
Unlikely.
btw, i think i've made my point.
"Whether it be genetic freaks attaining potential, or regular folks getting serious, it seems folks can get huge without juice. So...why the assumption that pros are cheating when they show up in shape?"
Because most people need to make excuses for why they've underachieved.
Last thought, bh, because you already seem to have your mind made. If you plan to believe what you want to believe, then what is the point of asking anyone else what they think? If you don't care about the truth, then don't post. Here are a few facts: (1) genetics matter a great deal (2) nutrition, work ethic, routine, and sleep matter a great deal as well (3) most fighters who use steriods deny it until they test positive (4) performance-enhancing drugs will help improve your performance, at least give you more lean muscle mass and greater stamina than your otherwise would have without them. if they didn't work, no one would use them (5)there are many different kinds of steriods that have different functions (6) as I said in a previous post, which you conveniently ignored, there are serious incentives to taking them if you plan to compete, especially when it is so diificult to get caught.
Last thought: no, of course, you cannot tell for certain that someone is using steroids just by looking at that person's physique. We agree on that point, right? That said, if someone is (a) abnormally large (b) has put on a lot of muscle mass in a relatively short period of time, then we can infer that it is more likely that not that the person in question has used some sort of steriod, especially in MMA when so much is on the line and most fighters would like to make a living as pro MMA fighters.
ron den otter,
just posing the question. was listening to NPR and they had a segment
on weight training in prison. people here think everyone in good
shape juices. so i was looking for some opinions. good to go.
- B H
California has taken weights out of it's prisons, hasn't it? And the inmates are still getting ripped anyway, with calisthenics and improvised equipment.
Any cons have some insight? I think prison could pose a great control,
given the right state regs. Thanks.
- B H
"Some people just have good genetics. I am a co and used to work in a prison where they (inmates) could get some supplements (very low grade cheap shit) and the diet is for shit eyet they were completely ripped. I still haven't quite figured it out except that it must be genetics."
Hit the nail on the head. How can a reasonable man like be a CO? :)
Prison diets are also really, really, really freaking high in calories and thats a big problem with most people working out. They just don't eat enough, or nearly enough, or remotely near enough to get big. There are lots of genetic freaks but there are also guys who never realized they were genetic freaks until they had nothing to do but workout and avoid getting shanked, or regular people who can just pack on lots of size by lifting and eating like a pig.
RE: the first post of the thread, I don't think its physiques that make most people question steroids in sports-at least the smart ones. I think its that pro athletes who make $ off of their bodies, for whom injuries are the equivalent of getting laid off at a job that ruined your back, will do a lot to win and stay competitive. And I see nothing wrong with that. Is it unfair? Not really, considering most guys at the top are probably doing SOMETHING that isn't considered squeaky clean. Its just another evolution of sports.
I'm totally against steroid testing and think this hooplah over steroids in sports just makes the whole business more shady and ironically more sophisticated. It should just be a specialist MD (endocrinologist?) and maybe a few other technicians along with regular strength trainers handling this stuff, and they shouldn't be spending that much time figuring out how to pass tests for whatever new stuff is going around. Thats going to have a lot of repercussions on the health of athletes long term IMO. Certainly more than steroids themselves, which as many have pointed out here (including myself, I like to think) are nowhere near as dangerous as most people think, especially under a doctor's supervision. The literature on the "dangers" is a joke, and even then there isn't much of it.
And these guys who go into steroids for athletes are a hell of a lot smarter and resourceful than the uber conservative left-brained people at the IOC, MLB, NFL, and a lot of state ACs-so just forget that steroid testing is even viable. When people get caught, its a fluke. Athletic culture is a lot different than sports fan culture. You do what you gotta do.
Its funny. We live in a country where we medicate CHRONIC SHOPPING for fuck's sake. And here the William Bennets and likeminded cough cough hypocrites cough cough moralizers, and 70% of the male population who live vicariously through their favorite athletes are all heartbroken cause-gasp-people are trying really hard to be better athletes. so that 70% will have something to keep them from committing suicide. And with DRUGS! The hell you say!
When a president has to act like he gives a fuck about steroids in the SOTU address-or actually DOES-to make people happy, we are seriously, seriously in trouble.
*edited because I just realized I got our own Ted Bennet and William Bennet mixed up. I will seek therapy tomorrow.
"People in prison have elevated testosterone levels above most people on the outside. I dont know the reason but if you google it you would probably find proof."
This is iffy I bet. Testosterone has been proven recently to promote elevated moods. Estrogen has been linked to high stress irrational behavior...yes yes, a surprise for sure, but what was big about this was that the discoveries were in a.)gay males, and b.)green berets. So either all green berets are secretly gay or the lifestyles of both produce a lot of stress.
What you're saying is a popular notion, but its a popular notion with a creepy bit of Eugenics and Nazi research feel to it IMO. There are examples of people with _______ genetic condition in every part of life. Re: the belief that testosterone makes you crazy, I've read psych literature about XYY inmates getting caught more because they're big and stupid on account of the testosterone (which I'm guessing isn't really considered the case now with new test. research)...
...then I read it get raped by sociologists pointing out how much more likely a jury is to convict a guy who can't string a sentence together without swearing, or who is ginormous like most XYY or other people with high levels of test often are. (And yes, especially if they're a minority. No sociology would be complete without pointing that out)
Whatever side you think sounds more rational, the prison population definitely isn't a bunch of physical specimens. There's a lot more dumb asses who got in trouble and kept forgetting about parole conditions and court dates (on account of the super ADHD) that end up there (and then of course turn into wonderful citizens...) than there are guys who look like Adibissi on Oz. Lots of scraggly, evil fucks of course, lots of big evil fucks too-but lots more scraggly, incredibly stupid and probably mentally ill fucks.
Oh, my point was that prison is probably gonna be stressful, so ixnay on the testosterone theory.
"Prisons should REMOVE weights and have more books, art classes, hobbies, etc. We don't need to toughen and strengthen bad guys, we need to soften and enlighten them."
They need exercise and outlets for tension. No question. They also need a lot more options like you say. I'm sick of people whining about "all those damn tax dollars WASTED on prison inmates!!!!" Yeah, those uhh...inmates are gonna get out one day, you know? You may have wished they had more options after they flip out and kill somebody you know in an ATM line because they're so used to being shit on all day in prison.
And bitching about tax dollars? How about the millions it costs to execute somebody? And no, I don't think turning into Texas is a good idea to curb that...$600 for a public defender when you're up for a capital offense is just a weeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit fucked.
"Well, they're expensive, so it's hard to see the lower tier fighters (who don't pull decent paydays from main cards) putting much cash into something like this, unless they have a real job in addition to their career."
Mr. Olympia winner gets what, $220 K? About a quarter of that, MINIMUM, went to drugs. Seriously.
Other athletes don't need that much. A few cycles a year. Thats like what, $600 a pop? Plenty of fighters seem to find the $ for hideous, enormous tattoos. Steroids might not be that hard to come by with that mindset.
Not to mention ANOTHER problem of steroids being a scapegoat for our nation's neuroses: people get suckered into buying crappy stuff because its harder, just like people loved moonshine during prohibition, just like men fuck open sore ridden crackwhores because prostition is illegal.
Bad steroids are a big problem, especially with low level athletes or weekend warrior types. So you age your liver in dog years, look like Jerry Lewis, and breakout while making some strength gains. Not to mention "that guy in the locker room. You know the one: looks like James Woods in that one movie" probably isn't the best source on how to take them properly.
Good Lord Linkage. Great response, but Holy Hell...
another thing I wanted to add....I've also seen several guys on death row who are amazingly huge and ripped......it would be very hard for them to get any roids since they are totally cut off from gen. pop. and have limited, survailanced physical contact with anyone. It may be possible...but not likely.
Face it, if you have a 3000+ diet, workout equipment, and all the time in the world with nothing else to do....you could get pretty damn big.
Just like a pro fighter, I suppose...
"I'd like to hear the rationale of those who constantly cry "juicer" in MMA, considering that prisoners have limited nutritional options and still manage to develope physiques that would get an MMA'er tagged as a roid monkey."
Nothing to do but train and eat all day.
black- what do you think of horns statement that the great majority of pros juice?
You guys are missing the most obvious answer. You don't need steroids when there's an seemingly endless suppply of Testosterone to be had. So if you see some huge ripped guy and he says he's been to prison jsut point and yell "cocksukcer".
"Other athletes don't need that much. A few cycles a year. Thats like what, $600 a pop? Plenty of fighters seem to find the $ for hideous, enormous tattoos. Steroids might not be that hard to come by with that mindset."
LOL...good point.
"Bad steroids are a big problem, especially with low level athletes or weekend warrior types."
What I've always wondered is, how in the hell do you know what you're getting? What is a "good" source for the product? Surely trying to score from the local muscle heads in the gym is a crapshoot...
Here are a couple of interesting articles on Training Behind Bars:
ttt because nelly fertado sucks on snl.