Good thread and one that all those training and teaching should have an answer for as to what is best for their overall game.
I hope I can bring something more to this discussion since we run both BJJ and Judo programs separately and also blend them on specific days. The idea is to ultimately integrate to distinct aspects of the game in a manner that the principles of both are allowed to play out.
That stated....
Typically, starting from knees or any grounded position is great for raw beginners, the injured and packed classes. It is also obviously the place to start for working and assuring pure "newaza" work and exchanges.
But to enforce what is much more common in an open grappling exchange; coaches should stress starting from common and variable positions like mount, cross sides and guard to specific ones including 1/4, turtle, back to back etc.
I prefer to have beginners work in pure Judo or takedown oriented session first with coaches that can guide them both safely and progressively into a familiarity with break falls and high percentage options. I also prefer to have them start from their knees and all sorts of assorted ground position for BJJ.
The reason I believe that both should initially be worked separately is that their is only so much time to work each aspect and so much time in any given week or class for that matter, that good coaching should really make itself available with each aspect of the complete game.
The bridge then becomes staring to roll from a throw. So beginners start with one student throwing the other with compliance much like staring from a grounded position. This way you can run an entire class that is newaza heavy but from a standing drill for a throw.
The same bridge can then be used in reverse where you start grounded and the goal is to stand out and from the guard for example and pass or back away. Or start standing and the goal is to not get pulled into guard after or during the throw or to break fall in a manner that allows for a fluid exchange for a submission or to pull guard.
In other words, only after there is a solid base understanding of both complementary aspects of the game should open sparring be permitted. This cuts down drastically on injuries and truly allows for training to learn in a technical manner and not just for the win on pure attributes and will.
Bridging both games together is the key and that comes in training methods that are conducive to growth and development with safety and technical ability first and foremost built into its methodology.
-Luis
www.straightblastgym.com
www.onedragon.com
Luis: Thanks for the response on this and I like your additional points about how to transition beginners a bit more quickly.
In fact, when we do have to start down due to space restraints, we always work out of a position, either mounted, side mounted, in guard or the like.
Luis,
That was well-written and intelligently organized. The only sad part was that it was quite refreshing after most of these posts.
~TT
What I'm basically saying is that starting from the knees should be the exception, something that is very rarely done, not the rule.