unless they are done to inflect damage or the person does not end up in guard or immediatly passes guard. Discuss
Agree 100%.
Means to an end only.
If you get taken down and you have good guard control like hogar did that should be awarded as well, not just the takedown.
well they do show who the better grappler is
Takedowns show who the better grappler is? Not to be disrespectful or anything, but how the hell do you figure that? While takedowns are very important to grappling I don't think that someone who gets a takedown and then does nothing else what-so-ever on the ground would be considerd the better grappler than someone who can work well from their back after being taken down.
DMT
Yeah and if fight goes to the judges nothing that happened in the fight should be considered by the judges.
Ocotgon control is part of the scoring if you look at the rules of judging. Take downs are a big part of that. Rashad didn't do anything after he got the take downs, but IMO he didn't enough to get the decision.
takedowns show some kinda of control, and possibility to advance to another dominant position.. they will always count as something.
the better grappler would be successfull in his grappling goal... if u attempt a takedown u will get it if u r the better grappler generally. if u attempt to takedown a better grappler he will generally defend your attempt.
that said i agree its lame to do nothing once u hit the ground. lame for bottom and top guys
If takedowns don't count for anything, why should guard passes?
Takedowns show a clear domination of the opponent and should score highly.
They show domination, but they don't really do damage, unless you're matt hughes or somebody. They should count, but not for very much. Just like leg kicks, they are great, they take away the opponents ability to hurt you, but you won't finish a fight with leg kicks, Jardine. You can put them on the ground but you need to be able to submit or gnp or they are pointless.
There is an easy solution. Get rid of the rules and make it a fight to the death. End of "scoring" controversies.
Down side: During the fight, everyone has to chant "two men enter, one man leaves", and Tina Turner is getting kinda old to wear that chainmail outfit.
Punches shouldn't count unless they knock someone out completely. lol
Maybe small points for damage, but you'd have to set up some sort of cognitive testing to check the before and after affects of each punch.
Sardonically,
Glenn
TD's are meaningless if you are losing on the floor.Which Rashad was.
i dissagree totaly!!!
take downs themselve arnt scored, agression is a factor, and takedowns show agression
I gotta disagree with the starter of this thread. Takedowns definitely should score points, just like punches, kicks, escapes, near-subs, etc. All of these things should score points.
"I think takedowns should be worth something, but I think damage and attempt to finish the fight should be the #1 priority, like Pride does it."
Pride has the most inexplicable and inconsistent application of its judging criteria ever.