nice summation HV
kwik i doubt Royce thinks he cant fight at any level
yes Royce thinks he can beat any fighter as would most top fighters think that
kwik its the same thing with Rickson.He believed he could beat guys like sakaraba,Kerr,Coleman,Bas,Ruas etc but chose the easy money fights Most would say he did the rite thing but arent the Gracies already loaded $$$$$$$$ For me if i was that good Id need to know how I stacked up against todays best ( Im sure theyd get paid well to fight a Silva or Coutore ? Kwik ur very incorrect
kwik id bet the house if u asked Royce if he could beat a Silva or Coutore hed say yes He for sure wouldnt say they could beat him
The guy put MMA on the map and at least half the people on here show absolutely no respect. WTF?
royce gracie fought a few mediocre stand up guys that didnt know shit about bjj. urquidez, jeff smith, bill wallace would have handed him his head. royce has the stand up skills of a girl.
I agree that Royce showed the world how to win from the ground. It is something that is essential to know in order to be a well rounded fighter. But you must also have the stand up skills as well. Anyone in MMA who depends solely on one art form will eventually loose. The greatest fighters are the ones who truely do MIXED martial arts. If a new form comes along that no one else knows then the people practicing that form will have the advantage untill the rest of the world gets the hang of it. Until the Gracies, fighting was a stand up sport. No one knew what to do other than ground and pound when they went to the ground. Submissions put a whole new light on the ground game and we can thank the Gracies for opening our eyes to it.
ruas in 93 was available i bet
Andre is correct, though incorrect to be wasting time arguing the point. Some people will never "get it."
A fighter's worth is judged by his accomplishments in his era, among his contemporaries. Maybe Lennox Lewis would've knocked Jack Johnson the Hell out, but does that somehow cheapen what Johnson did for the sport of boxing?
Fighters today have the benefit of a decade's worth of history to draw from. There is very little that can come as a surprise anymore. When Royce fought, he climbed into a cage and got into a televised brawl with much bigger men. The only thing he carried in with him was his faith in jiu-jitsu. That took more courage than just about anything that's ever been seen in sports.
To cheapen that by saying that it was "unfair" is ridiculous. Was it "unfair" of the Pistons to have a more cohesive team than the Lakers this year? The whole point of sports is to one-up your opponent. Maybe Royce should've shared some tapes and seminars in the same way Detroit should've shared their playbook.
Incredibly, people think that they're "owed" something, that Royce should fight Silva or Fedor or something equally insane. This is no longer Royce's era: he's still around to take on special-attraction fights, but he is not a circuit fighter and is not in pursuit of any belts.
He was interested in using his art to submit his largest opponent ever, and you know what? It'll look pretty goddamn good in his biography, along with having the longest match in modern MMA, being the only guy to submit Shamrock in MMA, beating an Olympian in Judo (draw my ass), being the only three-time UFC tournament champion, and ten million other milestones.
This thread and this forum wouldn't even exist if it weren't for Royce Gracie. This sport has aged in dog years, and just because Royce isn't hobbling around with a cane, people expect him to go throw himself in the fire to "prove something."
He's proved enough, and if you don't believe that, you need counseling.
Jake summed it up very well.
"The only thing he carried in with him was his faith in jiu-jitsu. That took more courage than just about anything that's ever been seen in sports."
I dont for one moment think it was "unfair" of matching Royce up against whoever he fought, esp. since he beat bigger grapplers aswell (Shamrock, Pardoel, Severn) BUT in regard to the comment above, as Marco Ruas said in his interview during his appearence before he fought, Brazil/BJJ had competiting in MMA/VT for decades so to say "that took more courage" is a little much I think.
Royce has balls of steal, no one can doubt that but Saku also stepped in the ring against the #1 HW in MMA after 90 minutes with Royce, etc...
"The whole point of sports is to one-up your opponent."
Agreed and thats exactly why Royce, other BJJers and Brazilians excelled to the point they did in early MMA but thats why I also think to say that Royce only "carried in with him was his faith in jiu-jitsu." kind of makes it seems like this was the first time Royce or BJJ went into MMA/VT.
I really didnt like how Royce was trying to discredit other BJJers and Brazilians who went into MMA in the states(like Ruas) by writing in Black Belt magazine some shit like "dont think just because a fighter has tan skin (like a Brazilian) that he knows real jj" or some shit like that.
While he blazed the trail, he was obviously trying to sell "GJJ" as the "only/real bjj" while he could.
I think its this kind of thing, not just the success that he and his family had, that lead to much of the resentment that surrounds him today.
As for him fighting and making coin off Akebono - good for him. I just dont wanna hear about what an epic, unprecendented Everest type climb it is. If you wanna do that, lets also hear it for Hall over Kitao, Takase over Yarbourough, Sudo over Butterbean...