The oblique kick needs to be banned

Underground
41
MasterofMartialArts -

I guess the better question to me is how are knees to the head of a downed opponent illegal, 12-6 elbows illegal, but oblique kicks legal? 

I don't know if they should be *illegal*, but every time I see a thread on this every single response is the same: "you're a pussy", "lets ban punches", etc.... yawn. Is there any potential for a reasonable discussion about this? I'm sure the answer is no, but... 

I agree that there are ways to counter it. I agree that fighters can train strategies to use it to their advantage. I see the argument that "punches and kicks to the head cause head trauma", but does one single punch have the potential to forcefully end somebody's career? I don't believe there is any scientific evidence that one punch ALONE to an otherwise healthy fighter could destroy their ability to continue fighting in the future. 

ONE single oblique kick could do that to somebody's knee. If anyone here has had knee injuries then I'm sure you know how difficult they are to come back from. I don't know of any fighters who have been ended with one oblique kick yet, but it only started to get popular in the last couple years and a very small portion of fighters use it. 

I agree that since it's legal, fighters are free to use it. It's fair play, and it's effective. I don't think fighters are "dirty" for using it. 

I have no problems watching a KO or submission, but every time an oblique kick lands my stomach hurts. Perhaps because I have knee issues of my own. 

To me it's the same reason the NFL is trying to avoid knee injuries to athletes. They are protecting the QB with penalizing players with tackles to the knee and down. 

Boxing protects fighters from punches to the back of the head and kidneys. 

UFC has their certain set of rules too. Although these sports can be brutal, the commissions and rule setters obviously feel certain strikes and tackles etc can be detrimental to the athletes. 

I think guys know it's dirty, and it could potentially end someone's career with a torn acl so we don't see it much. Jon doesn't give a shit about any rules, that's why he cheats in and out of the ring. 

42

I'm willing to bet a high percentage of Santos leg injury yesterday was due to the oblique kick. Look at the Rampage fight, once his knee went out he was a sitting duck. It's a move that basically cripples your opponent and keeps them from using foot work. 

43

Again, it has been legal in Savate for over one hundred years. That would be the sport to look at if you wanted to know the likelihood of career-ending oblique kicks. It's not even remotely a new technique.

44

ITS ILLEGAL IN MUAY THAI AND KICKBOXING FOR A FUCKING REASON

45
Uhtred Ragnarson -

ITS ILLEGAL IN MUAY THAI AND KICKBOXING FOR A FUCKING REASON

That's right!!! You tell em 

46
Barry_BondsMVP -

I'm willing to bet a high percentage of Santos leg injury yesterday was due to the oblique kick. Look at the Rampage fight, once his knee went out he was a sitting duck. It's a move that basically cripples your opponent and keeps them from using foot work. 

No it's not and your just speculating about Santos' knee because that speculation reinforces your position. 

47
tbi0904 -
Barry_BondsMVP -

I'm willing to bet a high percentage of Santos leg injury yesterday was due to the oblique kick. Look at the Rampage fight, once his knee went out he was a sitting duck. It's a move that basically cripples your opponent and keeps them from using foot work. 

No it's not and your just speculating about Santos' knee because that speculation reinforces your position. 

Every time he's thrown it against whomever they've at least hyperextended it. Facts. 

48
Barry_BondsMVP - 
Wasa-B -
Barry_BondsMVP - 
Wasa-B -
thetouchofdeath - 
Barry_BondsMVP -

I think it's a dirty move, kicking outside the knee I understand and is fine. But the direct kick to the knee cap imo is dirty and can permanently injure these guys, and it takes away the competitiveness of the fight. 

No it should be slipped and countered like Amanda did to Holly. 

Bonds, you are very knowledgable about boxing but “takes away the competitiveness”? Cmon man, what?

Also, Nunes showed exactly how it can be countered.

Punching and kicking and kneeing someone in the head also can cause brain damage.

Why is the kidney area illegal to punch in boxing?

Is it illegal in MMA?

I’m not sure, good question 

Doubt it. Have we ever heard about this? We’ve heard and discussed 12-6 elbows, knees/kicks to a down opponent’s head etc but this has never been mentioned. I seriously doubt it is.

49
MasterofMartialArts - 

I guess the better question to me is how are knees to the head of a downed opponent illegal, 12-6 elbows illegal, but oblique kicks legal? 

I don't know if they should be *illegal*, but every time I see a thread on this every single response is the same: "you're a pussy", "lets ban punches", etc.... yawn. Is there any potential for a reasonable discussion about this? I'm sure the answer is no, but... 

I agree that there are ways to counter it. I agree that fighters can train strategies to use it to their advantage. I see the argument that "punches and kicks to the head cause head trauma", but does one single punch have the potential to forcefully end somebody's career? I don't believe there is any scientific evidence that one punch ALONE to an otherwise healthy fighter could destroy their ability to continue fighting in the future. 

ONE single oblique kick could do that to somebody's knee. If anyone here has had knee injuries then I'm sure you know how difficult they are to come back from. I don't know of any fighters who have been ended with one oblique kick yet, but it only started to get popular in the last couple years and a very small portion of fighters use it. 

I agree that since it's legal, fighters are free to use it. It's fair play, and it's effective. I don't think fighters are "dirty" for using it. 

I have no problems watching a KO or submission, but every time an oblique kick lands my stomach hurts. Perhaps because I have knee issues of my own. 

“but does one single punch have the potential to forcefully end somebody’s career?”

Yes. Same with a good kick.

“ONE single oblique kick could do that to somebody’s knee.” Scientific evidence for punches needed but not for this assertion?

“I have no problems watching a KO or submission, but every time an oblique kick lands my stomach hurts. Perhaps because I have knee issues of my own.”

I believe that is called bias. A KO rattles your brain and you go unconscious. There is more evidence coming out on head trauma from fight sports and football. Most of it im sure is over the span of a career but im sure one good one can still do it. Like Masvidal’s knee on Askren could very well change Askren forever. I mean, he got stretched out stiff and for a while. Most people agree that was scary but no one questions the morality of using flying knees.

I wouldn’t be necessarily against the kicks to the knee but the rules in MT/KB are also inherently different as they are different sports. I think knees to head of a grounded opponent should be legal. It changes the ground game completely and opens up the top position a lot more (from sidemount, front headlock).

At heart, MMA is supposed to be the ultimate freestyle test of combat stylistically.

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dipsheet - To see oblique kicks makes me literally nauseous, but I can't see justifying a ban. I wish, though.

https://youtu.be/WeTe4xp41qY

im in the same boat this was bad

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https://youtu.be/WeTe4xp41qY

 

52

Legal but cheap.

53
Barry_BondsMVP -

I think it's a dirty move, kicking outside the knee I understand and is fine. But the direct kick to the knee cap imo is dirty and can permanently injure these guys, and it takes away the competitiveness of the fight.

2048×1402 217 KB

54
Barry_BondsMVP -
tbi0904 -
Barry_BondsMVP -

I'm willing to bet a high percentage of Santos leg injury yesterday was due to the oblique kick. Look at the Rampage fight, once his knee went out he was a sitting duck. It's a move that basically cripples your opponent and keeps them from using foot work. 

No it's not and your just speculating about Santos' knee because that speculation reinforces your position. 

Every time he's thrown it against whomever they've at least hyperextended it. Facts. 

You made that up. Facts.

55

They have already banned the side check kick to th hind legs, whats next?

56
Wasa-B -
MasterofMartialArts - 

I guess the better question to me is how are knees to the head of a downed opponent illegal, 12-6 elbows illegal, but oblique kicks legal? 

I don't know if they should be *illegal*, but every time I see a thread on this every single response is the same: "you're a pussy", "lets ban punches", etc.... yawn. Is there any potential for a reasonable discussion about this? I'm sure the answer is no, but... 

I agree that there are ways to counter it. I agree that fighters can train strategies to use it to their advantage. I see the argument that "punches and kicks to the head cause head trauma", but does one single punch have the potential to forcefully end somebody's career? I don't believe there is any scientific evidence that one punch ALONE to an otherwise healthy fighter could destroy their ability to continue fighting in the future. 

ONE single oblique kick could do that to somebody's knee. If anyone here has had knee injuries then I'm sure you know how difficult they are to come back from. I don't know of any fighters who have been ended with one oblique kick yet, but it only started to get popular in the last couple years and a very small portion of fighters use it. 

I agree that since it's legal, fighters are free to use it. It's fair play, and it's effective. I don't think fighters are "dirty" for using it. 

I have no problems watching a KO or submission, but every time an oblique kick lands my stomach hurts. Perhaps because I have knee issues of my own. 

“but does one single punch have the potential to forcefully end somebody’s career?”

Yes. Same with a good kick.

“ONE single oblique kick could do that to somebody’s knee.” Scientific evidence for punches needed but not for this assertion?

“I have no problems watching a KO or submission, but every time an oblique kick lands my stomach hurts. Perhaps because I have knee issues of my own.”

I believe that is called bias. A KO rattles your brain and you go unconscious. There is more evidence coming out on head trauma from fight sports and football. Most of it im sure is over the span of a career but im sure one good one can still do it. Like Masvidal’s knee on Askren could very well change Askren forever. I mean, he got stretched out stiff and for a while. Most people agree that was scary but no one questions the morality of using flying knees.

I wouldn’t be necessarily against the kicks to the knee but the rules in MT/KB are also inherently different as they are different sports. I think knees to head of a grounded opponent should be legal. It changes the ground game completely and opens up the top position a lot more (from sidemount, front headlock).

At heart, MMA is supposed to be the ultimate freestyle test of combat stylistically.

I agree with everything you said. Just to be clear, I’m talking about a single punch to the face/head. We all know sustained punishment can lead to long term brain damage and CTE. That’s documented. But I don’t know of a case where somebody couldn’t fight any longer due to a SINGLE punch. 

I’m not saying the oblique kick does that, but it has the potential to. You could tear your ACL just walking or getting up, if a kick hits the right spot your knee could be torn apart. 

And yes I did say there’s no evidence that an oblique kick has done this, but that it’s still very new and isn’t used by many fighters. Every fighter throws punches. To me there is just a difference between going in there to “hurt” somebody, and going in there to “injure” somebody. I understand an injury occurring in the pursuit of hurting them, but not having the intention of injuring them outright. I see the oblique kick the way I see holding a leg lock or kneebar too long. 

From a purist point of view, I can definitely agree that taking the kick away also changes the concept of “using every tool available” which is also a huge part of MMA. 

Not many things bother me, I just don’t like the kick. 

57

All you bitches are vanned. ALL OF YOU!

58

Back when there literally were no rules, they didn't stomp each other's knees out. It's in the same category as eye pokes.

 

Donny Frye spike on it several times, called it a gentleman's agreement or some such. It's dirty, I'm surprised so many would defend it when headbutts and groin strikes are not allowed.

But I shouldn't be, it's what this forum is now. No honor, just bleed. Carry on kids.

59
chupecabre - All you bitches are vanned. ALL OF YOU!

Lol 

60
tbi0904 -
Barry_BondsMVP -
tbi0904 -
Barry_BondsMVP -

I'm willing to bet a high percentage of Santos leg injury yesterday was due to the oblique kick. Look at the Rampage fight, once his knee went out he was a sitting duck. It's a move that basically cripples your opponent and keeps them from using foot work. 

No it's not and your just speculating about Santos' knee because that speculation reinforces your position. 

Every time he's thrown it against whomever they've at least hyperextended it. Facts. 

You made that up. Facts.

You gotta prove me wrong!!! ;)