Polar_beatdown - My friend used to do krav maga. One time we were at his apartment and he was showing his "skills" to a chick, like a bang bro. He was doing that usual "Put your hands on my throat and I will show you how to escape" bullshit. After the the demonstration my friend turned his back and the girl fucking jumped on his back and took him on nice and tight rear naked choke and started screaming "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GONNA DO NOW!!!!". He didnt want to tap to girl so hi collapsed on the floor after few seconds. When he woke up, it was the basic "What happened bro?" moment. I was laughing my ass off and told him that "You just got choked out by a little girl, fuck your krav maga". He stopped doing krav in a few months. :)
If the RNC is sunk, you're pretty much toast. They only real defense is to tuck your chin before it gets sunk. You can try to go for eyes, groin etc...was the guy willing to do that to some chick?
Or you could at least attempt one of the RNC escapes taught in BJJ if you knew some.
I don't train in BJJ. What would be an escape from a standing RNC? Would these techniques be effective for women being attacked by men? or a smaller person vs a much larger person?
I have the upmost respect for all legit martial arts. I never dog anything anyone is committed their blood, sweat and tears to. I only ask because I actually want to know. I even went on the Krav Maga forum asking how to defend a locked in standing RNC. Still waiting for answers.
Polar_beatdown - My friend used to do krav maga. One time we were at his apartment and he was showing his "skills" to a chick, like a bang bro. He was doing that usual "Put your hands on my throat and I will show you how to escape" bullshit. After the the demonstration my friend turned his back and the girl fucking jumped on his back and took him on nice and tight rear naked choke and started screaming "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GONNA DO NOW!!!!". He didnt want to tap to girl so hi collapsed on the floor after few seconds. When he woke up, it was the basic "What happened bro?" moment. I was laughing my ass off and told him that "You just got choked out by a little girl, fuck your krav maga". He stopped doing krav in a few months. :)
If the RNC is sunk, you're pretty much toast. They only real defense is to tuck your chin before it gets sunk. You can try to go for eyes, groin etc...was the guy willing to do that to some chick?
And here is where u reveal your ignorance. Someone has you in a RNC you have no chance of eye gouging them, and attack the groin? Please. Your going to sleep homie. Your only slim hope is to turn your head, put 2 hands on their top hand and peel it off. See fitch/ silva. That is the difference between learning techniques that work and " oh if it was a real fight I'd just eye gouge them". Twit
I think krav is shit too, but I want to know how an RNC defends the eye poke?
IMO, people who think an eye poke is a viable defense to an RNC have probably not spent any significant amount of time applying or escaping RNCs.
The fact is that the eye poke isn't really available to somebody who is otherwise stuck in an RNC.
The person being choked not only can't see the eyes of the person applying the choke, but they have no way to control the head so as to gouge an eye in the first place.
In other words, the person being choked can only flap their hands back randomly, unsure of what side of their head the choker's head is even on. And when they do find the attacker's face, nothing stops him from turning away, burying his face in the victim's neck, lifting his head up, turning his head side-to-side rapidly, etc.
Once applied, the victim only has seconds before he passes out. An "eye gouge" would be, IMO, a basically impossible, hopeless defense.
When stuck in an RNC, the victim needs to start working for legitimate escapes. Flailing at the guy's eyes behind you is going to be futile.
^Also, the guy applying the choke generally controls the position. He can roll you off of all fours, or keep you on all fours where it's going to be awkward to try to reach back. He can also often use his legs to snare one of your arms.
Combine that with the fact that you can't see attacker, that he has complete autonomy over his head, and that the choke takes only seconds to put a guy out, an eye poke is not, IMO, a plausible defense.
Voted up Hulagal! I just had this same discussion with someone the other day. It's not a It's a marketing system that borrowed techniques from all the other and packaged it. Packaged well I might add, but...
Question: You're a 110lb soccer mom trying to get into your car. A 220lb man comes up behind you and puts you in an RNC. It's under your chin, and he wants to drag you to his car. What do you do to get out of this situation?
SMACDADDY - Voted up Hulagal! I just had this same discussion with someone the other day. It's not a It's a marketing system that borrowed techniques from all the other and packaged it. Packaged well I might add, but...
I totally agree. A lot of borrowed techniques marketed as another package. It is basically the "crossfit" of MMA. Damn OP, I thought I was a lurker!
The truth is that Krav Maga is a system built on borrowed techniques. Boxing, Jiu Jitsu, Muy Thai, BJJ, Wrestling, etc. To say it's borrowed from MMA is a bit inaccurate because the system was designed during WWII. It's a constantly evolving system. With more people learning MMA, techniques and defenses are added.
I know it was probably a bad move to come on an MMA forum and try to defend something like Krav Maga. It's not a system developed to make you a fighter. So yeah...you go toe to toe against a trained MMA guy...you're probably going to get your ass kicked. But I would never go toe-to-toe with anyone. The whole point of the system is to give you the skills to better handle a life/death situation. Defend yourself and get the hell out. If someone joins thinking that they're going to learn MMA, they should find a quality MMA gym.
Also, like anything else. It takes years and dedication to get to the point where you can POSSIBLY handle multiple attackers, weapons, etc.
I love all things MMA. I don't train in it, but I watch all that I can. I train in Krav Maga, not tobe able to step into a cage. I wanted something that addressed the ugliest of realities. Drill day in and day out on it. Use mock scenarios where you're in a plane, car, house, bar (which we actually have at the facility). I wanted to feel more comfortable if I was put in a situation that I couldn't walk away from, have more situational awareness, and have fun doing it. It also helps that I'm in better shape at 40 than I was at 20.
So thanks for the healthy debate....I'll keep lurking because you guys say some hilarious shit on here sometimes.
juszczec - What MMA showed is that it is not the name of the style. Styles that practice with 100% live resistance work well. Those that do not share in this training method can not continuously produce a repeated result during live situations. Most Krav Instructors can not pull off their techniques in a live situation. Very few would be willing to show you in a live situation that is not choreographed. The ones that are willing to show you ALREADY HAD EXISTING skills that they learned from a specialist.
bhealthy- Me too. People who train Krav treat it like a religion. Fighting is not a religion, it is about what works. How do you know it works? You try it 100% live. Not 50%. You don't blindly believe your instructor as if he were a priest. A true student of martial arts must be scientific about finding answers.
whoabro and Bobby Lupo- I already made the point that I think it is very hard to develop a high level martial artist in just an MMA class. I think to reach a high level in MMA at some point you need to have separate coaches for each discipline. You usually need to be taught by an expert. MMA classes with good coaches go live and test students ability to perform proven techniques over and over again. Folks need to focus on one thing at a time though to get good.
Almost all pure krav maga instructors are not an expert level in anything. They are white belt level martial artist that talk about a mentality, a mind set, and other BS to distract away from their lack of true skills. Once again these things could easily be learned in a weekend seminar or should be covered by any martial arts instructor.
There are some good awareness drills in Krav. It gives people a good game plan but not the necessary skills to execute that game plan at a high level. Since they market for the most serious situation I think it is our duty as martial artist to not turn a blind eye. This stuff can get people killed.
Krav Maga is a self-defense exercise classes. Krav is to Self-Defense what TAE BO was to kickboxing.
There are krav schools that have instructors with backgrounds in legit arts. These are exceptions to the rule. "Krav Maga" is a marketing scam.
onepunchcombo - As I said in my first post, I believe Krav may evolve and continue to get more "legit" over time. More and more Krav instructors will start to put their ego's aside and learn proper technique and start teaching as more and more begin to train live. At this point nearly all krav maga schools in the US do not train live. They say they do, but they do not. The problem is that the highest ranked guys are not usually willing to spar live (unless they have skills learned outside of krav). This has to start from the top. But the
Many styles or instructors claim to have the best answers to every question. This is what Krav does. They may claim that they have the answer to defend yourself in every situation. This is plain ridiculous. It's quite the opposite. Don't fall for the propaganda. Propaganda like this comes from insecurities and marketing. It may seem like confidence but it's a con to control students and instructors to hide the style's weaknesses. All styles and people have weaknesses. Those that won't admit it, have the biggest ones.
Lot's of time when you get in a fight, you actually have to fight. If this happens you better have more than Krav Maga.
onepunchcombo - Question: You're a 110lb soccer mom trying to get into your car. A 220lb man comes up behind you and puts you in an RNC. It's under your chin, and he wants to drag you to his car. What do you do to get out of this situation?
onepunchcombo - Question: You're a 110lb soccer mom trying to get into your car. A 220lb man comes up behind you and puts you in an RNC. It's under your chin, and he wants to drag you to his car. What do you do to get out of this situation?
1 of 2 things.
1 - Escape. You train submissions (as part of your MMA training) regularly and getting out of a no-hooks RNC is simple and you do it often. It's now instinctual because you train hard.
2 - Get mangled or die. You were sold on Krav Maga. It's so trendy now and all your friends are doing it.
Polar_beatdown - My friend used to do krav maga. One time we were at his apartment and he was showing his "skills" to a chick, like a bang bro. He was doing that usual "Put your hands on my throat and I will show you how to escape" bullshit. After the the demonstration my friend turned his back and the girl fucking jumped on his back and took him on nice and tight rear naked choke and started screaming "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GONNA DO NOW!!!!". He didnt want to tap to girl so hi collapsed on the floor after few seconds. When he woke up, it was the basic "What happened bro?" moment. I was laughing my ass off and told him that "You just got choked out by a little girl, fuck your krav maga". He stopped doing krav in a few months. :)
If the RNC is sunk, you're pretty much toast. They only real defense is to tuck your chin before it gets sunk. You can try to go for eyes, groin etc...was the guy willing to do that to some chick?
Or you could at least attempt one of the RNC escapes taught in BJJ if you knew some.
I don't train in BJJ. What would be an escape from a standing RNC? Would these techniques be effective for women being attacked by men? or a smaller person vs a much larger person?
I have the upmost respect for all legit martial arts. I never dog anything anyone is committed their blood, sweat and tears to. I only ask because I actually want to know. I even went on the Krav Maga forum asking how to defend a locked in standing RNC. Still waiting for answers.
Fair enough, to escape the standing RNC is the easiest. Since there are Youtube videos on it I will just post a link. The technique will work for a female escaping from a male.
Polar_beatdown - My friend used to do krav maga. One time we were at his apartment and he was showing his "skills" to a chick, like a bang bro. He was doing that usual "Put your hands on my throat and I will show you how to escape" bullshit. After the the demonstration my friend turned his back and the girl fucking jumped on his back and took him on nice and tight rear naked choke and started screaming "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GONNA DO NOW!!!!". He didnt want to tap to girl so hi collapsed on the floor after few seconds. When he woke up, it was the basic "What happened bro?" moment. I was laughing my ass off and told him that "You just got choked out by a little girl, fuck your krav maga". He stopped doing krav in a few months. :)
If the RNC is sunk, you're pretty much toast. They only real defense is to tuck your chin before it gets sunk. You can try to go for eyes, groin etc...was the guy willing to do that to some chick?
Or you could at least attempt one of the RNC escapes taught in BJJ if you knew some.
I don't train in BJJ. What would be an escape from a standing RNC? Would these techniques be effective for women being attacked by men? or a smaller person vs a much larger person?
I have the upmost respect for all legit martial arts. I never dog anything anyone is committed their blood, sweat and tears to. I only ask because I actually want to know. I even went on the Krav Maga forum asking how to defend a locked in standing RNC. Still waiting for answers.
Fair enough, to escape the standing RNC is the easiest. Since there are Youtube videos on it I will just post a link. The technique will work for a female escaping from a male.
onepunchcombo - Question: You're a 110lb soccer mom trying to get into your car. A 220lb man comes up behind you and puts you in an RNC. It's under your chin, and he wants to drag you to his car. What do you do to get out of this situation?
That question is answered in bjj. That's the point I, and others are trying to make. In an average bjj class there is a variety of different size people, with a variety of strengths and weaknesses.
Your hypothetical 110 pound women would be best served learning bjj, where she can practice her escapes in a realistic setting, with trained partners, rather then learning ridiculous eyepokes and groinshots.
The whole eye gouge, groin shot thing was not the Krav Maga technique against an RNC. It was more of an "oh shit" option. I've trained in a choke similar to a RNC, but not a true RNC. That's why I was asking. The video above looked simple enough.
I understand exactly what you're saying. The best place to learn how to defend BJJ techniques would be in through strict BJJ training. Just as strict boxing, muy thai, etc.
But there's another layer to it. Put yourself in the mindset that this choke, bear hug, knife, pool cue, gun, rifle, beer bottle, 2 on 1, 3 on 1 is a life/death situation and train like that. I've never trained in BJJ so I'm pretty ignorant to what the training is like. If anything this thread has peaked my curiosity.
Like someone else posted in this thread..there are no guarantees a technique will work. If something goes down the wrong way, I hope people will do what they can to survive. Maybe even jam a thumb in someone's eye.
Boy, I didn't do Krav Maga any favors by that whole groin shot/eye gouge comment.
When I was in Israel I spoke with a soldier about Krav and how it was taught in the US. He explained to me that the hand the hand aspect of Krav was the least important part and that it is mainly centered around using firearms and in the extremely rare instance that a soldier found himself alone without a gun he would resort to using knife and baton tactics. He thought it was funny that there were a billion Krav Maga self defense schools in the US.
Kinda reminds me of how the really old school Ju Jitsu practiced by samurais was mainly a means to drawing and using a sword yet somewhere along the line got morphed into a system where hand to hand techniques were taught to common folk which eventually morphed into a system where men hold other men between their legs.
