onepunchcombo - So, last thought. Krav Maga is a system with limitations. I think the ideal situation would be to have a strong background in something like MMA and take those skills into a reality based system. This discussion has been helpful...there's always more training out there. Age, time, and funds make that a little hard for me.
Right now I can't say what will happen if a gang banger pulls a gun on me, if three guys jump me in an alley, or if someone kicks in my door attempting a home invasion. Like other's have said, it's only tested in drills and mock scenarios with as much realism as possible. Without actually getting mugged or jumped...I haven't tested it.
I know of at least one person that did use it in a robbery attempt where he was faced in a 2 on 1 scenario. Hopefully if all goes well...I'll never have to use any of it.
I'm a pretty non-threatening person, and aside from the fact that I may have received the Cliff Notes version of some more specialized MA training...the system has instilled something pretty valuable. Not a false sense of security or over confidence. But an awareness that anything can happen, and if needed, there's this ugly-side that I can call on to help in the worst possible situation.
Home invasion = use weapons. No weapons? Improvise.
As the saying goes, never bring a knife to a gun fight. Never fight unarmed in a situation where the odds are against you and you have to kill to protect your loved ones.
As a Krav Maga Instructor who has a MMA base. Tactics is key. I've been sparring since the 70's.I roll as much as this 56 year old body allows, its easier to tap then lose membranes. I teach in the suburbs the past 24 years and it's my passion and will die in a gi. I'm tough on my students and encourage them to be well rounded(BJJ), and always prepare for the worst. Not all Krav Maga is the same be aware of posers.
Hey guys first post here! I'm Israeli and even though I never took krav maga (except in the army) I can try and share my understanding of it, or at least how it is in Israel. To say that krav maga is a totally new and unique martial would be foolish. It's more of an application of several martial arts that specifies in self defense scenarios, rather than competition. Whereas most martial arts today do mostly hand to hand techniques, krav maga has a big focus on situations when a knife, a pistol or a different weapon is involved. That is krav's advantage over other martial arts in the same way that muay thai has an advantage over other striking arts when it comes to the clinch. The krav maga that is taught in the army has a completely different mind set than other martial arts. Most combat units, unless they're elite ones, don't practice it enough to actually acquire enough skills and knowledge. They teach very basic skills like how to strike with a rifle. The idea is to improve conditioning, strength and mainly aggression in the shortest amount of training time. The instructors in the army usually have a strong background in other martial arts. Also, they're not combat soldiers so i don't know how exciting their military experiences would be. There are many legit practitioners of krav out there, like Ran Nakash who was head of the krav maga department in the IDF, and has pro muay thai, mma and boxing experience (fought for a boxing world title a couple of years ago). I don't know how it is taught overseas, so I can't really address your complaints about the marketing, pricing and level of the gyms. Anyways, like many other things there are fakes who tarnish the reputation of the legit guys.
Someone who has trained a week under conditions like the fight quest guys will do 100x better in a real fight situation just based on having to deal with the adrenaline dump associated with all of those scenarios.
There is nothing wrong with KM, if it gives a person a fighting chance in a street situation, then so be it. No harm in that. Nothing they teach is fantastical, flying kicks or outrageous wrist locks, so I don't really see what the OP is trying to accomplish. By his standard, anyone who practices any MA is wasting their time because real fights rarely look like _______
Fill in the blank. Most street fights don't look like boxing matches, BJJ matches, TKD matches or even UFC matches, so basically by OPs standard everything, to some degree, is rather worthless.
I argue there are attributes that lend themselves well to self-defense encounters and those attributes can be found and developed in the martial arts regardless of the "style" or the "technique". To deny this is just to engage in style-ism...that whole "my style is better than your style" bullshit always makes me laugh.
Haha I used to train judo with that girl! She wasn't bad for someone who isn't a judo specialist and is just trying to improve on her holes, but she wasn't close to other girls in the club.
ravenink - I'm confused by the comments about lack of live training. I've never done Krav, but I thought at level 2 they spar at 100%?
Most Krav Maga schools have some sparring at some point but only spar at 50%. Very light sparring. Classes are mostly of self-defense scenario drills and games. Most krav practitioners don't like live sparring with other styles or arts.
KyokushinCatch is correct.
"At its best, KM is good for what it's supposed to be: an easy to learn, easy to recall, and hopefully easy to apply fighting system for people with no prior effective fighting or martial art experience."
Key word is "hopefully" since most the students don't live test what they learn. It's good for people to learn some self-defense. It's better than nothing and fun fitness class. People should know the limitations of what they are learning though. It teaches you how to try not to fight, it doesn't teach you how to fight. I think people who trained krav maga would love BJJ and other combat sports if they put some time in and could get over losing. It's a good beginner class if people don't want to live train in martial arts, have a huge ego or have too many injuries.
Krav Maga isn't a fighting system but a self defense system. Especially in the civilian version. Although there are similar tools the final goals are different. I would think that in MMA, Muy Thai, Boxing, BJJ the goal is to become the best fighter, boxer, grappler etc. The training and sparring sessions are what it takes to reach that goal. In Krav the goal is to give you skills and more importantly...a mentality to handle real life situations. There is some sparring, but not at the level or frequency that you would get in other MAs.
I know that schools vary, but I think I'm pretty lucky. We try to make each scenario or drill as real as possible within safe limits. Using real knives or guns is unrealistic. We did use real batons last night, and I'm bruised to shit because of it.
If someone says that Krav Maga is the best "fighting system" or thinks that they can take on anyone in the street because they learn it...they deserve to get an ass whooping. Although you never know what could happen, I'm less worried about facing a trained fighter in a bar, and more worried about the situations I can't walk away from. The Like Kyokushin said in his post..."Hopefully" I can do enough to survive the attack and GTFO.
This was an attempt at an honest explanation and a good response. Thanks you. Most krav guys get caught in trying to prove they spar when everyone knows the krav definition of sparring is much different. To most other arts 50% is not sparring.
My point is that a nearly all pure Krav Maga practitioners typically do not progress beyond beginner level technique in actual combat even after years of training. I feel it has too big of a focus preparing on a mentality for certain situations that almost never happen. If they do happen I feel most Krav people will not be ready for the intensity due to the lack of 100% sparring and they untested, unproven techniques.
The goal of the other arts can be explained better.
The goal of Jiu-Jitsu is control. You can control an attacker/opponent with as little effort and strength as possible so that they can not hurt you and then you decide the use of force needed to apply in that situation. Having the ability to do that to anyone is the goal of BJJ. Sport BJJ is popular now days but BJJ gives practitioners these abilities.
The goal of boxing is to knock someone out. To use punches and movement to do as much damage to an opponent/attacker without taking punches. To be an absolute expert in punching and defending punches.
The goal of MMA is to allow martial artist of many different styles, techniques, disciplines and arts to try defeat or dominate another highly trained martial artist in mutual combat.
The goal of muy thai is to use shins,elbows, knees, punches and kicks in a standing clinch or striking contest. To use you these weapons in the most damaging ways possible.
These arts are all very sophisticated systems of fighting. The have been passed down from generation to generation and evolved to be as effective as possible through natural selection. Theories, techniques and strategies are tested live and BS is thrown out. These skills can be transfered to anyone if have focused training with an expert instructor in any of the above arts.
This is not true with Krav Maga. Krav classes are usually have instructors teaching classes and techniques that they don't know very well. They have never done in a live situation. Theory over facts.
All Marketing & Propaganda: Money, Ego & National Pride are the motivating reasons behind Krav Maga. Fake history, fake training methods, fake instruction. Krav is evolving but not from being tested in live situations to improve it's effectiveness. It is evolving for business reasons. It's kung fu all over again.
The founder of Krav Maga went to specialist and learned from them. He trained 100% live in wrestling and boxing. His students did not do the same. No wonder why he kicked their ass.
What we were told: Imi taught Krav Maga in the Israeli military. Truth: Imi never taught Krav Maga in the Israeli military. The term “Krav Maga” was not coined until 1971. Imi retired from the military in 1966. Imi taught hand to hand self defense techniques in the Israeli military.
What we were told: Krav Maga was made to be easy to learn and easy to remember. Truth: The above is true for the military hand to hand self defense techniques. When Imi created Krav Maga he intended it to be a martial art. The students were to wear gi’s and belts. It relied a lot on high kicks, jump kicks,etc. It was meant to take time to perfect and move up the belt ranks.
What we are told: Krav Maga is an open system meant to change throughout time. Truth: Yaron made the statement “When Michelangelo was done with David did he leave the chisel and hammer there for others to change as time went on? Krav Maga was Imi’s masterpiece.” It was meant to be a martial art that was complete.
What we are told: Krav Maga isn’t a martial art, it is all about techniques that are easy to learn and master quicly. Truth: Krav Maga was absolutely meant to be a martial art. Imi wanted all the moves to have Hebrew names no matter where they were taught just like Karate and Judo techniques all have Japanese names.
Moti Horenstein wasnt a krav maga fighter. He came from a system called Hisardut(dennis Survival jiu jitsu) which was founded by Dennis Hanover and is a blend of Kyokushin karate and Judo. I have no idea why people say he was a km guy as even the UFC broadcast labeled his style as Survival.
jcblass - Someone who has trained a week under conditions like the fight quest guys will do 100x better in a real fight situation just based on having to deal with the adrenaline dump associated with all of those scenarios.
There is nothing wrong with KM, if it gives a person a fighting chance in a street situation, then so be it. No harm in that. Nothing they teach is fantastical, flying kicks or outrageous wrist locks, so I don't really see what the OP is trying to accomplish. By his standard, anyone who practices any MA is wasting their time because real fights rarely look like _______
Fill in the blank. Most street fights don't look like boxing matches, BJJ matches, TKD matches or even UFC matches, so basically by OPs standard everything, to some degree, is rather worthless.
I argue there are attributes that lend themselves well to self-defense encounters and those attributes can be found and developed in the martial arts regardless of the "style" or the "technique". To deny this is just to engage in style-ism...that whole "my style is better than your style" bullshit always makes me laugh.
What "scenarios"? People not really hitting them very hard?
That was poor, sloppy, not intense MMA type sparring that they do. Noting special there.
Real boxing, wrestling, jiu jitsu, muay thai and MMA work is way more intense than that play acting. Anyone who has done all of that, and fought in sport and out in the real world knows that.
672 - As a Krav Maga Instructor who has a MMA base. Tactics is key. I've been sparring since the 70's.I roll as much as this 56 year old body allows, its easier to tap then lose membranes. I teach in the suburbs the past 24 years and it's my passion and will die in a gi. I'm tough on my students and encourage them to be well rounded(BJJ), and always prepare for the worst. Not all Krav Maga is the same be aware of posers.
