Makes no sense to me how 2 minute chunks of pinning someone on the cage count for more than knocking someone to the ground and then taking them down and mounting them.
I didnt see Vera locking that decision.
HELWIG - Makes no sense to me how 2 minute chunks of pinning someone on the cage count for more than knocking someone to the ground and then taking them down and mounting them.
Agreed.
"Vera did more damage in a couple flurries than Randy did with all his pushing against the cage
Randy did more damage with his flurry in the third than Vera did with a takedown that Randy got up almost instantly from.
He really did the equivalent of a takedown ion the first few seconds and then staying in half guard for the rest of the round. Sure he "controlled" things but c'mon.
ranier wolfcastle - randy eeked out r1
vera took r2
the deciding factor on randy winning the 3r and fight, was he landed 91 strikes to veras 49. he wasnt hit while mounted so i guess the judges didnt give the takedown more consideration than thew strikes
i agree with this. it wasn't a clean takedown, randy initiated the scramble and almost got it. the thing is that brandon did absolutely nothing with the mount, and by randy getting out of it so easily that probably nothing for brandon's behalf and perhaps even more for randy in the eyes of the judges. had brandon finished the round still in mount and throwing strikes then he would have definitely won the fight.
liquidrob - agreed, and anyone who calls that 'Octagon control' is crazy, thats stalling, nothing came from it, nothing
Randy did nothing in that fight, Vera did more damage in a couple flurries than Randy did with all his pushing against the cage
Agreed. Octagon control my ass......he didn't control the fight...he wanted to take it to the ground and beat on vera from there.....but couldn't and it was forced to stay standing...
Vera hurt Randy in the stand-up department...so his only defense was to stuff him against the cage....just like what liquirob said...STALLING!! Bring Pride rules and judging into the UFC!!! yellow cards and more points for damage than control.
Alabama Man - I think we have seen an new era of UFC being ushered in. The era of "Wall and Stall." E.g., "X is a great kickboxer but can he overcome Y's Wall and Stall." "I don't know, Goldie."
dude... did you not watch the early ufc's when that was very common? some terrible fights took place like that when people could grab the fence.... THAT was the era of that shit... i'm forgetting names as it's been a long time since i've watched those but a really fat italian guy and tank abbott come to mind
this was just a bad fight
Jiu Jitsu Panda - So in your opinions Randy should give up his game plan of taking Vera down and trade punches? If thats the case Vera should of stoped fighting the take down and let Randy take him down. Yes Vera landed some good kicks but he couldn't finish it. Randy was consistently working to get Vera to the ground. Thats pressure, thats controling the fight. not exciting but it gets the job done.
This.
Randy won according to the Judging Criteria.
Watching it again, Randy landed more punches and strikes, though they were often glancing blows up against the cage. Vera did get a momentary takedown and did get the back for a second in the scramble but this was almost nullified by the quickness with which Randy got back to his feet. Yes, Vera hurt Randy, but in general, those kinds of strikes are given the same value as any other strike. If Octagon control is a factor, RC also gets it.
It was not an exciting fight but BV did not do enough to take the fight from hall-of-famer RC.
30-45 seconds out of a 15 minute fight does not get you a Win.
As much as I was worried at the end because Brandon got the mount, I actually had scored the rounds 2 to 1 or 29 to 28 for Randy.
I thought round one and most of three went Randy's way but round 2 was Brandons. But very close fight. I thought that Randy landed more strikes via dirty boxing than Brandon in round 3 and controlled where the fight took place in round 1. Obviously the more dangerous shots were from Brandon with a few very hard body kicks.
ideepthroatcolt - Pushing someone around > being pushed around.
dropping someone and punching them in the face> hugging them
I know for damn sure you dont give it Vera either. Randy pretty much did what he wanted in the clinch.
Jsteven -ideepthroatcolt - Pushing someone around > being pushed around.
dropping someone and punching them in the face> hugging them
Hugging them=NOOB statement.
The only thing I can think of is you counted positional dominance in the clinch like you do on the ground, i.e. holding a guy up against a cage. But fights are never judged this way, I can't figure out how they gave it to Randy after that last takedown-mount Vera got. Before that, yeah, I gave Randy a slight edge.
Herring In A Fur Coat - Round 1: 10-9 Couture. Boring but Vera did nothing the whole round after the initial exchange.Round 2: 10-9 Vera. Clear victory but not dominating enough for a 10-8 round.Round 3: 10-9 Couture. He clearly outstruck Vera and won all exchanges but one. Vera got a takedown and good position but didn't do anything with it.
Round 1: Randy did even LESS in that whole round than Vera did with that initial exchange.The clinch against the fence was a neutral position.How can you score that for anyone when nothing was done by either fighter. 10-10 round easily.
Round 3: Vera got the takedown and good position but did nothing with it, so he gets no credit for that, yet, in round 1, Randy initiates a neutral clinch and also does nothing but he still gets credit for that round?
This is ridiculous.
Gordo1581 - Round 3: Vera got the takedown and good position but did nothing with it, so he gets no credit for that, yet, in round 1, Randy initiates a neutral clinch and also does nothing but he still gets credit for that round?
This is ridiculous.
Yeah this to me is the bit that needs explaining.
If its all about control, wrestling and takedown attempts (which is why Randy was apparently given the 1st round), then shouldn't Vera have been given the 3rd round for being the only one the entire match to actually score a takedown and establish top control.
If baby punches are being counted, it could go to Randy. Vera won that fight in the eyes of the fans, but the judges have a specific set of criteria they use to judge a fight, and Randy squeezed out a boring win by using it to his advantage.
The only thing I want to know is how leaning against the fence unable to advance is different that being stuck in guard without being able to either pass or posture up.
The only reason I ask is that they will stand the fight up within 30 seconds if nothing is happening in guard while they will let guys be stalemated against the fence for 2-3 minutes as a time at least.
Either let everything go and let them work from whatever position they are in or treat all positions which are more or less neutral the same.