to be the champ you gotta beat the champ...thing is Randy aint the champ any more that was a load of crap.
Randy = Bear hugging champion of the world.
Herring In A Fur Coat -Gordo1581 -Having good position for the majority of the round, completely shutting down your opponent's offense wins a round.Herring In A Fur Coat - Round 1: 10-9 Couture. Boring but Vera did nothing the whole round after the initial exchange.Round 2: 10-9 Vera. Clear victory but not dominating enough for a 10-8 round.Round 3: 10-9 Couture. He clearly outstruck Vera and won all exchanges but one. Vera got a takedown and good position but didn't do anything with it.
Round 1: Randy did even LESS in that whole round than Vera did with that initial exchange.The clinch against the fence was a neutral position.How can you score that for anyone when nothing was done by either fighter. 10-10 round easily.
Round 3: Vera got the takedown and good position but did nothing with it, so he gets no credit for that, yet, in round 1, Randy initiates a neutral clinch and also does nothing but he still gets credit for that round?
This is ridiculous.
Having good position briefly in a round where you lose the majority of striking exchanges doesn't win the round.
C'mon, dude.
A nuetral clinch against the fence where nothing happened is not a "good position" for either fighter. No effective, damaging strikes were landed... nothing was gained, that's why it's neutral. Just like a 10-10 score. Nuetral.
And in the 3rd round, the best strikes that were landed were the body kicks by Vera. The mount was short lived and no damage was dealt but he gets slight credit (like landing a simple combo of punches) for having the technique to achieve that position. Randy had 2 flurries in this round... one early on which Vera defended well keeping his guard and the flurry at the end was pretty even (Vera landed a nice simple uppercut).
So, even the 3rd can be scored 10-10, though I gave it to Vera 10-9 for the solid body kicks and having achieved mount.
30-28 Vera or 30-29 Vera
Incase you guys haven't noticed, UFC judges usually give a lot of points for holding your opponent against the cage. This is why Couture got a clear unanimous decision. Holding your opponent against the cage, even if your opponent is defending the repeated takedown attempts, gets you points.
mikeblak - With the current 10 point must system, Randy could have arguably won the 1st & 3rd rounds, thus giving him the victory. Not the most exciting way to win a fight, but it got the job done given the parameters.
Brandon should have pushed the pace more in the 3rd or finished Randy in the 2nd when he had the chance. It appeared to me that he didn't have the gas to do either.
This.
Fuck the points, fuck the judging system, fuck all that. I like watching fights, and Vera won that fight.
Immaculata -Jsteven -ideepthroatcolt - Pushing someone around > being pushed around.
dropping someone and punching them in the face> hugging them
Hugging them=NOOB statement.
dropping someone and punching them in the face>holding them against the fence.
*fixed
I understand completely why Randy won that fight base on the current scoring system, but it doesn't mean I like it.
I HATE fights like this. Randy never tried to end that fight, he only tried to avoid any possible exchanges (striking or ground).
There should really be an overriding point(s) for trying to end a fight. These 'survive' fights are aweful.
Jsteven - Immaculata - Jsteven - ideepthroatcolt - Pushing someone around > being pushed around.dropping someone and punching them in the face> hugging themHugging them=NOOB statement.dropping someone and punching them in the face>holding them against the fence.*fixedI believe the term U are trying to come up w/ is Dirty Boxing.*fixed.
Immaculata -Jsteven -Immaculata -Jsteven -ideepthroatcolt - Pushing someone around > being pushed around.
dropping someone and punching them in the face> hugging them
Hugging them=NOOB statement.
dropping someone and punching them in the face>holding them against the fence.
*fixed
I believe the term U are trying to come up w/ noob is Dirty Boxing.
*fixed.
Dirty boxing implies there was some actual boxing and/or punching involved. Randy was not. He has used very effective dirty boxing in the past but not in this fight. It is still a fight and he did no damage.
Randy was definitely given more leniency than Brandon.
They stoof them up in about 10-20 seconds on the ground after Vera knocked him down in the 2nd, yet they let Randy pin him against the fence doing NOTHING for the entire 1st round.
Vera's wrestling looked really good, and Couture couldn't take him down for more than a few seconds, and Vera popped right back up. Neither guy's takedowns had bearing on the outcome.
Vera made it very hard to give the fight to him. He did everything to not win even after getting the best of Randy. Randy controlled the fight position and Vera did nothing to impose himself. Vera looked like he was trying not to lose.
Not a great fight for either guy, but I don't think you should get points for trying to take the guy down. Of the other guy is trying to avoid it, and does so, then you could say he implemented his plan better.
I dunno, I just think Vera came close to finishing the fight, and with how much emphasis they give the takedown, I though he stole the 3rd round.
Scoring will need to be revamped in 2010.
Was very surprised Vera didn't attempt more throws/tosses/trips/etc. to try to get out of the clinch and avoid it to begin with. Just looked like he accepted that kind of fight.
This is a sport, and the UFC is not judged the same way as Pride so if a guy punches someone in the face..regardless of the amount of force it counts.
Vera was the closes to ending the fight, and under Pride criteria won, but under UFC criteria he lost rounds 1 and 3 in a close fight.
Wow, pressing your opponent against a cage and continuously attempting a takedown seems to be a bigger factor in the judges' eyes vs several dominant positions like getting a takedown, getting the mount and dropping your opponent to the canvas.
In boxing, dropping your opponent almost always ends up a 10-8 round. Not so much in mma I guess. The other guy could somehow steal a round even though he was down.
solidsnake - Wow, pressing your opponent against a cage and continuously attempting a takedown seems to be a bigger factor in the judges' eyes vs several dominant positions like getting a takedown, getting the mount and dropping your opponent to the canvas.
In boxing, dropping your opponent almost always ends up a 10-8 round. Not so much in mma I guess. The other guy could somehow steal a round even though he was down.
Aren't you mixing up UFC rules and Submission grappling rules? Yes, in sub-grappling, during a scramble, getting mount or getting his back even for a half-second scores points. In UFC judging, a scramble that goes through mount and back in two seconds without 'control', not so much.
WidespreadPanic -solidsnake - Wow, pressing your opponent against a cage and continuously attempting a takedown seems to be a bigger factor in the judges' eyes vs several dominant positions like getting a takedown, getting the mount and dropping your opponent to the canvas.
In boxing, dropping your opponent almost always ends up a 10-8 round. Not so much in mma I guess. The other guy could somehow steal a round even though he was down.
Aren't you mixing up UFC rules and Submission grappling rules? Yes, in sub-grappling, during a scramble, getting mount or getting his back even for a half-second scores points. In UFC judging, a scramble that goes through mount and back in two seconds without 'control', not so much.
UFC criteria:
"4. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter who maneuvers from guard to mount is effectively grappling."
jbapk -Point taken... (pun intended).WidespreadPanic -solidsnake - Wow, pressing your opponent against a cage and continuously attempting a takedown seems to be a bigger factor in the judges' eyes vs several dominant positions like getting a takedown, getting the mount and dropping your opponent to the canvas.
In boxing, dropping your opponent almost always ends up a 10-8 round. Not so much in mma I guess. The other guy could somehow steal a round even though he was down.
Aren't you mixing up UFC rules and Submission grappling rules? Yes, in sub-grappling, during a scramble, getting mount or getting his back even for a half-second scores points. In UFC judging, a scramble that goes through mount and back in two seconds without 'control', not so much.
UFC criteria:
"4. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter who maneuvers from guard to mount is effectively grappling."
I wonder, sometimes, if the typical UFC judge knows what to do with that information.
Jsteven -Immaculata -Jsteven -Immaculata -Jsteven -ideepthroatcolt - Pushing someone around > being pushed around.
dropping someone and punching them in the face> hugging them
Hugging them=NOOB statement.
dropping someone and punching them in the face>holding them against the fence.
*fixed
I believe the term U are trying to come up w/ noob is Dirty Boxing.
*fixed.
Dirty boxing implies there was some actual boxing and/or punching involved. Randy was not. He has used very effective dirty boxing in the past but not in this fight. It is still a fight and he did no damage.
He put Brandon on the defensive pretty much the whole rnds. 1 & 3. Defense doesn't win fights.
sparkyman -
I HATE fights like this. Randy never tried to end that fight, he only tried to avoid any possible exchanges (striking or ground).
Randy was on the favourable end of the exchanges in R3 iirc and there were more than 1.