Red Stuff - "Is bjj still bjj without a base in self-defense?"
Nope. It’s American jiu jitsu.
considering american football, this makes perfect sense…
Dude. Don’t go there. No other sport has anywhere near the violent collisions of the NFL. 80% of legal NFL tackles would be an immediate ejection in modern rugby.
Pads make the sport more dangerous just like boxing gloves.
it is the most boring 4 hours on television, but that is a topic for another thread in another forum…i stand by my analogy american jiu jitsu is to jiu jitsu as american football is to real football…not recognizable as the original!
Those guys are old school as it gets as far as sport BJJ competitors go. But both have fight experience, although with mixed results.
To be fair to Amaury, I dont think any Gracie or BJJ fighter at that time could have defeated Don Frye. He would have wiped the floor with one Gracie after another. He easily would have defeated Rickson, Royce, Renzo, Royler, and any other Gracie one after another in a single night
Honestly. I’ve done BJJ for a long time and have went with the best lockers there are. I always felt that I could have used my free foot to kick them or stomp on their faces up until the very end when the submission was on.
Leg locks wouldn’t be as effective in the street as you think.
In sport BJJ, sure. We’d all get submitted but I’d bet you my life that there are at least a few guys on this forum outside of the pro fighters that would beat any of these guys going for shit like that pretty bad on the street or in an mma fight.
Garbage like that is destroying BJJ and taking it away from what it was designed for.
Yeah, both have mixed results. not the best records but not the worst records. they are known for their terrible losses but in reality the ones that stood out, would defeat most people.
Don Frye only lost to Mark Coleman at that time of his career, and looked near unstoppable and destructive. Like I said, he would have whipped nearly every Gracie one after the other in one night.
Saulo fought Yuki Kondo who was a devastating striker, who had a prime Tito Ortiz on his heels with a vicious flying knee shortly after nearly killing Saulo. That version of Kondo would likely have done the same and left Rickson a bloody mess just like he did with Saulo
Amaury at 5-2 (with he one DQ win you mentioned) isn’t terrible
2-1 isn’t great but he at least has some experience
A grip is a tool. It depend on what you are trying to do with it, how its trained and you objective in usinng it.
After a crash and you get a grip, you own 99%of people…most bjjers dont really know how to use it though. Gi or no gi, I train to break their balance/posture…kuzushi.
Even more important from a d3f3nsive pov is arm awareness&control. Ive post3d the russian judoka??, in white puffy jacket that got shanked…he didn5 know he was dead til he was dead. My primary entry and off balance isnt even gripping, secondary methods do use vi or no gi vrips…just depends
What makes you think these guys would be going for this on the street?
As someone stated, these guys fundamentals are mastered so they go to levels that are less and less applicable to self defense because that’s the sport.
A mathematician understands calculus, doesn’t mean he needs to use it when he’s measuring Christmas lights.
Any one of these top level bjj guys would annihilate 99 percent of the population in a street fight using 3 stripe white belt level techniques and wouldn’t need to dig this deep into their game.
Agreed. Also people who think that carrying a gun absolves them from all forms of combat training. If you are denied the space to reach for your gun, your gun is not only useless to you, but you will likely get killed by it.
Striking, grappling, and weapons are all worth training and they can all compliment each other.
it is ot nust a question of skill and techniques…it is a matter of defaults, which is very important in 5he case of sudden assault.
Look at a simple flinch response. What do many people do, their orientation, etc. What happens when a person who only trains sportivly when sicker punched? If ones training is purely for a sport encironment, rhat is their default inder pressure.
And again, who cares what Joe Elite can do, What can rhe Average Joe training in that environment do?
Whn one of my partners was going tjrough LE training (brown belt) he had a classmate who is black…he jad no idea how ro translate his skills despite being a black belt. He asked my friend where and what he trained. Several of my partners are LE…so I take their feedback over what some elite can do
I’ve sparred with guys like this who are making the transition to mma in the past and as great as they are it’s still a difficult transition for them when they get tired they usually start dropping back on singles looking for rolling heel hooks. It’s not an easy transition for them.
You can do all the bjj you want to but if the guy you are fighting boxed and wrestled a decent amount and knows who to put them together even a great BJJ guy usually has mediocre takedowns, he’s going to struggle getting the fight to the floor.
I promise I have better insight into these types of scenarios than you do.
You’re the only talking about MMA here chief. I was quite clear in my assessment that these guys beat the overwhelming majority of people that they may encounter IN A STREET FIGHT.
How about you promise to read and think before replying next time.
I don’t have the gas and stopped training awhile ago but I’m pretty sure I would have done just fine fighting those guys BJJ dorks in the street.
After sparring with some pretty physically gifted wrestlers but they also had minimal mma experience, I’d be much worried about fighting someone like that in the street.
You can tell a guy who wrestled D-1 as soon as you start hand fighting with them. They have heavy hands and they make you tired fast. When they take shots they will drive you through a wall and they are all really strong.
I’d be much more worried about fighting a legitimate D-1 starting caliber guy in the street than I would be any of these undersized BJJ dorks.
I had only been doing BJJ about 9 months but I did lose a street fight to a kid who wrestled D-1. I was at a school my buddy went to and we went to a frat party.
My friend started a fight and walked away. I was left fighting with a guy who wrestled for the school. The guy kept basically tackling me but couldn’t beat me up when he got on top. No one even knew what I was doing. This was back in 05 and no one was really even doing BJJ yet.
To be fair he was a man about and wouldn’t let all his friends stomp me out. I got taken down twice but BJJ saved me from getting beat up bad. BJJ is defensive in nature.
a variant, double palm, of a dive is great for aggressive guy ryijg to take your head off. Doesnt matter if its a straight or a cross. To y Blauer teaches SPEAR…its a dive. Others teach si.ilar methods.
I gave that as an example because it easy to find and hilarious. He is on the outside and controls the arm…in case there was a weapon, and turns the guy.A knife already in play then diving for a 2on1…anything 3lse than securing that is BS. Various me5hods for securing the arm.
Burton Richardson, DBMA Dog Cathcer, Jerry Wetzel (Redline or Redzone?)SBG and o5hers have ways of getting a d using a 2on1 v knife.
