it's not propaganda. i know HA's and have been to their rallies. Dude's don't carry ball peen hammers to fix something on the go, you feel me?
they have the right to be there, no doubt, but lets not give them sainthood status and be quick to call them nice guys. yeah, they were cordial to you, but i'm sure some of those nice guys would take a bat to your face for saying something to his friends.
I walked into the middle of all them and handed out magazines to these guys and they were great.
I can see where people might fear another event like the one in Cali. but lets face it a bunch of drunk Frat boys will likely cause more trouble. Colour wearing members don't need to cause any trouble to advertise themselves.
What was cool though was watching the "sponsors" running around and getting beer and food for the higher ranks......but that's another story.
Mike
yes, but rival gangs of drunken frat boys do not light up car bombs in residential areas.
this is about optics. this is not about "who is a nice guy".
this is about the sport.
i guess there are reasons why this "sport" will always be slow to take off and gain the respect that it so rightfully deserves.
again, no disrespect to specific members, and i say that having hung out with, worked with, and entered the homes of, a few members of unmentionable organizations. they are good people.
this is not about them.
this is about fostering an image that is marketable.
if you see some dude sporting tatoos etc, and escorting a fighter into a ring/octagon/cage, you think nothing of it. if you see that same individual wearing his HA colours, you automatically link the image to your own biases.
The whole "gestalt" of this just seems to not wash from a "grow-the-sport" mindset.
I would say that it is best to bring in these guys (the HA) because they are probably good people, they have money, the support the sport, and they can generally be cool. Yet I would also say that it might be best for the sport if they left their colours at the door. It is not like you are asking them to stay away from events. You are just asking that they help the sport like everyone else.
I have mixed emotions about this subject.
They do have the right to be there like every other
paying customer. If they're sitting in the front row
seats then they are spending top dollar to be there
not to mention all the other things they probably buy
like beer, eats and ..and more beer? ;) ..and maybe
even mma-related stuff like t-shirts, etc.
Saying they can't or shouldn't be there is almost like
saying any other group that comes in and sits together
that may be wearing all the same shirts or jackets
(or whatever the case may be) shouldn't be there as
well.
If one particular person or group of people aren't
causing trouble and obey not only the fighters rights
and safety, and the rights and safety of others around them, then all is good and everyone can watch a great night of fights and go home happy.
lol@mark... "You may now go back to the donut shop".
Thanks Deepu, Jackyl, Empire, Wayne-O and especially 10040g
for their sanity. For some of the others, I suggest you open a
psychology book and look up "gangster wannabe complex".
Donuts might also help you in that matter. Ill distribute a few to
some well-deserving people.
As a Quebecois living in Mtl, in the East end, which is the HA's
turf, here's what I have to say:
Yl2: 2 big donuts for you man. How dare you say its trolling? This
is about the image of the sport and its long-term future. No
offense, youre the troll.. or a HA yourself!
How dare some other dude says its police propaganda?? LMFAO
Half a dozen donuts for him!!!!! Or a whole frikkin dozen if that
can help him. God knows he needs some. Ah, never mind the 7-
year old killed by schrapnel of an "unlucky" bastard's bombed car
not far from where I live. Oh yeah....
Yep, guys, tell that to my friend, a local dj, who had organized a
rave.. without telling them!! Foolish he was... Everything was
chillin until they came in and threatened to break the whole house
down if they didnt sell their "gear" on the premises. Wow. Talk
about "ordinary friendly folks just like your neighbors". Talk
about party-poopin'!! My friend will gladly make you eat his
records for the matter. He just didnt want to end up dead like
that poor bastard they had beaten up to death 'cause he didnt
want them to sell stuff in his bar.
Im sure some of them are cool... They all are... until they have to
pump a few bullets in your skull 'cause their boss said so. Get real
guys.
On the other hand, yes, they have the right to be there if they
behave well. I have no problem with that. Its also Steve Duquette's
business. Ive trained in a gym owned and run by them. No
problem at all because they were discreet about it. But at TKO, its
just that theyre kind of VERY obviously there... yknow...
Ojja , youre right, but as 10040g said, this is about fostering an
image. A MARKETABLE image. If we want the sport to grow just a
little more, we'll have to consider that and not just fantasize
about how cool it is to hang out with the local tough gangsters.
So Ojja, if youre really into the sport (youre a promoter right?) I
suggest you think about it. A few donuts wont hurt you too. I
think Showdown Joe probably needs one too.
Lets just take boxing as an example. We all know that organized
crime has had an interest in it. Namely the Italian mafia. They (or
another group, the russian mafia, whoever...) probably have an
interest these days, be it for money or just for fun. Its possible.
BUT: do we see them hanging out with t-shirts "MAFIA" printed on
their backs?? Nope. If there's a criminal group around boxing,
they're discreet about it and I think that's how it should be since
the eradication of organized crime in fighting sports seems to be
impossible.
Those Krispy Kreme donuts are so tasty it probably went all up to
my head!! That was one hell of a sugar rush dudes... Im gonna get
some more to replace all that energy spent. Be patient guys,
theyre coming!!!
Obviously these guys are criminals but hey there is nothing against the law when they attend TKO in a civilised fashion.
I think all some of these haters need is a big hug!
I don't understand the donut analogy. Please explain.
D
"I think all some of these haters need is a big hug! "
where's loaf when you need him?
You know what my good friend Takeshi Miike? i want to say once again you're trolling...
Send me all the donuts you want, it's a pleasure.
How can you say that it's about the image of the sport that depends on it?? When there's a boxing show in Montreal, there are always there and boxing is doing good as far as i know.
It's like if i said OH GOD!! i saw some skinheads at TKO, fuck they don't belong in a place like this!!! just like a 5 years old kid don't belong in a place like this in the first place. Everybody who pays their tickets have the right to be there (even a 5 years old kid, even if i disagree).
Oh and you're trolling.
Speaking as a Frat guy, well, our Frat was shut down at my school but that is another story, I think we've all lost sight of the true important question of this thread.
When will TKO come out with new DVD's for me?
I have taken the time to read everyones post and get a better view on this issue. I believe there is good in everyone, i am sure there are some that are good guys and some that are great guys. First of all mr. duqqettes ability as a fighter is not in question at all, so please drop that. Second it is not that the hells angels shouldnt come to these events or even walk their fighter into the ring;it is about wearing their colours when they are walking the fighter to the ring.If you can find the benefit for the sport in that please tell me. Remember guys organized crime is organized crime.
the benefit to the sport? they buy tickets.
Ok Yl2. How do you like them? Im a bit short on cash so I hope
the honey-glazed ones will please you.
You got a point there my friend. HAs at boxing cards in Mtl. Ill
have a donut in that case and I dont mind actually.
But I dont think Im trolling and the comparison with Skinheads is
lame dude. Skinheads: angry teenagers in need of identifying with
a group. Probably the wrong one but for that matter I still dont
see them bombing places though. Selling and racketeering too.
So, more donuts coming for you my friend!
And oh yeah, a solid dozen of creampuffs for that lost and
confused member of Amnesty International, Demarco Desouza.
LMFAO You have some ready my friend! (gee, that's going to be
an expensive order man)...
The point of my message was to wake everyone up to the reality
of who they are. I felt some common sense was lost here...
Perhaps I get to see them and not just at TKO where theyre all a
bunch of beer-drinking jolly good fellows.
I totally agreed with 10040g on that matter. That was a really
good point. They can just leave their patches at the door and it
would be cool. Its also Steve Duquette's business. I do not
question his ability as a fighter. Thats not the point. Its just that
when they walk down the catwalk with fighters, cameras
zooming-in, well, you try to convince me that its good for the
sport in light of what has happened in the past in Qc and Ontario.
Cmon. mmmm....
(runs to the ATM before heading to the new Krispy Kreme at
Marche Central)
they're all cool. At boxing events there are tons of them, they take up entire sections, especially when Ouellette fights. It's when you see members of other gangs like the Rock Machine thereto that makes you a little bit nervous. Gotta hope no shit is gonna go down. But I always end up sitting next to them cause me and my pops always get hooked up with great seats from the retired referee, and they are all really nice guys.
Speaking of a really nice Hells Angel, i met Chuck Zito in Atlantic City at the Hopkins fight and he was not just a nice Hells Angel, but probably one of the coolest guys I had ever met. Ya, he's kinda Hollywood, but he doesn;t have to be nice, but he was which was cool.
Oh, Dan the Man,
I was just referring to Mark Stables who said that we should go to
the donut shop because we were victims of police propaganda.
I thought the donut, a very respectable staple and symbol of
police nutrition, was probably needed as in 'smell the coffee and
wake up'. Instead, have a donut, and think about who the HAs are
while youre munching away. The more donuts, the better, or the
more serious your case.
My experience with the Hell's Angels is limited to being seated next to a crowd of them in restaurants on a couple of occasions (they all seemed like mild mannered folk), and having a friend tell me about a group of bikers that saved him from getting beaten up while trying to close down his bar one night.
This leads me to believe that these "gangs" do not consist of your everyday rude boy thugs, as is further backed up with the fact that TKO and other MMA shows can run smothly with their presence.
I also believe that for the most part, the victims of the bombings, murders and beatings tend to be criminals themselves, or people who unfortunately, somehow get caught in the cross fire so to speak. (crop raiding kids and that sort of thing)(again, I want to stress "for the most part")
Although there is undeniably some shady stuff that goes on within organised crime groups, there shouldn't be any restrictions on who gets to buy tickets. I'm sure there were some crack dealers and pimps at the show, and probably a dude or two that went home that night and beat up his wife or dog or something like that, but unless someone's being a jackass, you can't kick them out.
Besides, I know nobody could pay me enough cake to go and tell those cats to scram.
I understand the donut analogy now. Thank you.
I'm losing my sense of humour these days and need things like that explained to me... ;p
D
So if a skinhead came to the cage to fight, would there be an issue with the fighter being escorted to the ring by his "brothers" wearing Swastika patches and a giant Nazi flag (similar to how americans will carry the flag, or how our canadian boys do the same some times)?
I ask because this is being spun as "discrimination"..
Again, no problems with the HA..
I am simply approaching this from the perspective of growing the sport.. and if you think that having it languish as a peripheral player like boxing has become, then so be it. It is your business to run and your momenutum to generate.
It is too bad that we could not invite an actual HA to the forum to voice how the reaction would be if there was a call to not wear colours..
Oh.. and about the idea that only criminals have been hurt by "bike gangs"..
..Ummm no. They put pressure on illegitimate and legitimate business interests. And that child that was killed in the crossfire (serves as the best known example, and a potential hot button from a marketing perspective when associating the HA with anything), I am sure that kid was not doing anything illegal other than jaywalking while looking for his toys.
Do as you wish.
This was just meant for open discussion and it has gotten angry with many. I am out.