john joe - i would think the only real benefit is to replicate that horrible exhausted pitch-dark claustrophobia you can get in a hard fight or grapple, and get you really comfortable with being in that situation while hardly able to breathe
my thoughts as well.
Good point
This is the very reason I started using training mask. I have occassional bouts of clostrophobia and the mask is a great way for me to induce it and work through it in a controled manner. I also have trouble getting full breaths sometimes in training, I probably have some mild form of asthma but don't have insurance and am not really interested in taking any medication. I found when I was using the mask I could get fuller breaths and avoid panicing.
Also, I found it simulates working while being in a choke. This is training that is hard to simulate sometimes without risking neck injury. Sure swimming does the same thing, but I don't have access to a pool.
I always thought guys who used it to change their blood chemestry were kind of misguided though
UGCTT_LastCall - Here's my non-FRAT response - Will the training mask help with your cardio? YES
Will it magically teach your lungs how to absorb more oxygen? NO
---------------------------------
FRAT response:
The mask basically just inhibits the intake of air. Meaning you kind of have to suck slow and steady to get each lungful. Personally, I learned this breathing technique whilst suffocating under many a sweaty gi. Breathing slow and steady when NOT being suffocated by a gi is easier than when you ARE being suffocated even if you've never trained with a training mask. That part is plain science. ;)
The mask can/will help, but not for the "scientific reasons" they tried to promote it with. It cannot duplicate the benefit of real high altitude training. It simply inhibits the intake, it does not change the density or oxygen% of the air you are breathing. It can't. It's a neoprene and plastic mask.
Wanna know what can? Actually training at altitude. THAT would teach your lungs to process oxygen more efficiently, giving you better absorbtion when you compete at a lower elevation.................or something like that. Since the air is thinner you would also be regulating your breathing patterns much more carefully throughout the training anyway.
The point of training at altitude is not about teaching your lungs anything, including "better absorption". Your bronchioles and alveoli are not going to be significantly better or worse at transporting oxygen and CO2 whether in vegas or big bear.
The point of altitude training is that your body responds to the thinner air by producing more red blood cells to store and transport oxygen.
john joe - i would think the only real benefit is to replicate that horrible exhausted pitch-dark claustrophobia you can get in a hard fight or grapple, and get you really comfortable with being in that situation while hardly able to breathe
my thoughts as well.
Good point
This is the very reason I started using training mask. I have occassional bouts of clostrophobia and the mask is a great way for me to induce it and work through it in a controled manner. I also have trouble getting full breaths sometimes in training, I probably have some mild form of asthma but don't have insurance and am not really interested in taking any medication. I found when I was using the mask I could get fuller breaths and avoid panicing.
Also, I found it simulates working while being in a choke. This is training that is hard to simulate sometimes without risking neck injury. Sure swimming does the same thing, but I don't have access to a pool.
I always thought guys who used it to change their blood chemestry were kind of misguided though
That's the most logical reasoning for its use I've heard.
and the blood chemistry in itself is well, a science. If you can increase your red blood cells to the perfect amount where you can get better oxygen saturation, then cool. A tad too high and now you're looking at sticky/sludgy ass blood. Too much is def not good. i have no idea how effective the TM is at that.
UGCTT_LastCall - Here's my non-FRAT response - Will the training mask help with your cardio? YES
Will it magically teach your lungs how to absorb more oxygen? NO
---------------------------------
FRAT response:
The mask basically just inhibits the intake of air. Meaning you kind of have to suck slow and steady to get each lungful. Personally, I learned this breathing technique whilst suffocating under many a sweaty gi. Breathing slow and steady when NOT being suffocated by a gi is easier than when you ARE being suffocated even if you've never trained with a training mask. That part is plain science. ;)
The mask can/will help, but not for the "scientific reasons" they tried to promote it with. It cannot duplicate the benefit of real high altitude training. It simply inhibits the intake, it does not change the density or oxygen% of the air you are breathing. It can't. It's a neoprene and plastic mask.
Wanna know what can? Actually training at altitude. THAT would teach your lungs to process oxygen more efficiently, giving you better absorbtion when you compete at a lower elevation.................or something like that. Since the air is thinner you would also be regulating your breathing patterns much more carefully throughout the training anyway.
The point of training at altitude is not about teaching your lungs anything, including "better absorption". Your bronchioles and alveoli are not going to be significantly better or worse at transporting oxygen and CO2 whether in vegas or big bear.
The point of altitude training is that your body responds to the thinner air by producing more red blood cells to store and transport oxygen.
That's plain science.
Exactly. You can expand your lower ventrical by simply stretching it over long period by using long slow distance cardio and then strengthen the LV by bouts of high intensity cardio.
You need actual altitute or simulated altitude or a drug like EPO to increase red blood cells to that degree. Or hgh, testosterone, and/or some ABS's.
WHY ARE YOU GUYS OKAY WITH PAYING FOR A PRODUCT WITH ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNIFICANT PROVEN GAIN. WHY. WHY.
I heard shooting caviar before BJJ matches created a magical beam of myoglobin-exuding aura from your spleen. There's not any science backing it up, but I spent a lot of money on it one time and then felt good, so it must work!
I wish I could find the chart that the geneticists showed us on varying effects of "treatments" on kids with autism. The parent's perception of behavioral improvement showed a strong correlation to the price or difficulty of the treatment, despite the fact that objective MDs saw no such pattern. Chelation, for example, a risky and harmful procedure, was raved by parents as being effective while independent experts saw that it was no different than a gluten-free diet. But I understand it. Hell, I've dropped decent money on some video games that I've convinced myself were good just to not realize the disappointment of being an uninformed consumer.
Hillary - WHY ARE YOU GUYS OKAY WITH PAYING FOR A PRODUCT WITH ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNIFICANT PROVEN GAIN. WHY. WHY.
I heard shooting caviar before BJJ matches created a magical beam of myoglobin-exuding aura from your spleen. There's not any science backing it up, but I spent a lot of money on it one time and then felt good, so it must work!
I wish I could find the chart that the geneticists showed us on varying effects of "treatments" on kids with autism. The parent's perception of behavioral improvement showed a strong correlation to the price or difficulty of the treatment, despite the fact that objective MDs saw no such pattern. Chelation, for example, a risky and harmful procedure, was raved by parents as being effective while independent experts saw that it was no different than a gluten-free diet. But I understand it. Hell, I've dropped decent money on some video games that I've convinced myself were good just to not realize the disappointment of being an uninformed consumer.
I have one, and I really like it. My lungs (or whatever muscles around them) are a lot stronger. I had to 'teach' myself to take longer, stronger, deeper breaths and that has become habit so in that aspect it has helped my cardio.
the psychological aspect of claustrophobia was better in the original one because it sucked to your face and you could black out the eyes.
Honestly, the biggest difference I saw from it was outside of training and fighting though. When I was in Hawaii, I was snorkling like a motherfucker and no one could keep up or stay out as long as me because they weren't accustomed to restricted breathing.
I could say my cardio for running has gotten better too, but that could just as easily be attributed to more training, fat loss, change in diet, etc.
I keep it on during rest periods too and focus on my breathing and relaxing/lowering my heart rate.
For some reason, the HARDEST thing for me to do with it (outside of sprints) is push ups... something about changing into the horizontal plane makes it more difficult to breathe. I could do jumping jacks all day, but even holding a plank with that thing on is a bitch.
I use the elevation mask in combination with my PowerBalance Bracelet and some prescription pills my doctor gave me. The brand is named Placebo, not sure if you can trick your doctor into prescribing them.
Anyway, with that triple threat combo I am the Incredible Hulk!
Hillary - WHY ARE YOU GUYS OKAY WITH PAYING FOR A PRODUCT WITH ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNIFICANT PROVEN GAIN. WHY. WHY.
I heard shooting caviar before BJJ matches created a magical beam of myoglobin-exuding aura from your spleen. There's not any science backing it up, but I spent a lot of money on it one time and then felt good, so it must work!
I wish I could find the chart that the geneticists showed us on varying effects of "treatments" on kids with autism. The parent's perception of behavioral improvement showed a strong correlation to the price or difficulty of the treatment, despite the fact that objective MDs saw no such pattern. Chelation, for example, a risky and harmful procedure, was raved by parents as being effective while independent experts saw that it was no different than a gluten-free diet. But I understand it. Hell, I've dropped decent money on some video games that I've convinced myself were good just to not realize the disappointment of being an uninformed consumer.
I paid $100 for the mask to help me control my breathing and overcome a problem I was having with panicing. We are in a sport that demands physical effort when your breathing is obstructed, like working out of a triangle choke or pushing out of north south with your nose or mouth covered. Therefore it makes perfect sense that someone might be interested in a product that mimics that training reality.
Not all gain is measured in labs, we are people in a sport. If wearing a training mask during fight camp helps someone keep it together when they're getting smothered in a fight then I would call that a significant gain.
If you want to challenge the ethics of advertising a product based on a scientific claim which doesn't hold water then fine - but to act like every person who purchased a training mask is just a case of placebo is equally unfounded and really makes you come off as an elitest imo.
How much does your fanciest BJJ gi cost? Mine is a Judo gi that I got wholesale for $34. Does your $100 gi have a "significant proven gain"? Maybe it just makes you feel more comfortable when you're rolling and that is enough to justify the extra $66 - to each their own. Infering that anyone who purchased the product and was satisfied is stupid or uninformed really just makes you come off as a know it all. I kind of think anyone playing a video game past the age of 11 is a moron, but I tend to keep that opinion to myself.
john joe - i would think the only real benefit is to replicate that horrible exhausted pitch-dark claustrophobia you can get in a hard fight or grapple, and get you really comfortable with being in that situation while hardly able to breathe
Do you know what else mimics the horrible exhausted claustrophobia of hard grappling?
Hard grappling.
THIS. Common sense and a little research people
By this logic I could attack any product or training method someone is using to help their grappling cardio. Why are you sprinting?
To help my endurance when I grapple
You know what helps your endurance for grappling...grappling
Well guess what? Sometimes you're on a road trip and don't have access to a grappling mat or partner. You might be too beat up to get a ton of hard rounds in but could do some jump rope with a training mask on no problem.
Also, as far as claustrophobia goes, you may have to work your way up to overcoming the feeling in hard grappling. When someone is smashing you and you panic it can be hard to get your partner to dial down the intensity to just below your breaking point, however you can do this if you induce it with a mask on. Also it can quite frankly be embarassing. I know if I felt myself getting to that point I would lower my pace to keep from flipping out while rolling rather than allowing the panic to be induced. With a training mask I can work on this issue by myself, which may make me more comfortable.
3 Sided Square - Considering any video game with an M rating is only purchasable by anyone 17 and up, that is a terrible example you just used.
No it isn't, its my asshole opinion that video games are for kids and that adults should do better things with their lives.
You missed my point entirely. My stance against video games is just my personal bias of what I consider a worthwhile purchase, but really someone isn't an idiot for playing a video game just because I think its a waste of money. Same way someone isn't an idiot for buying a trianing mask just because others think its a waste of money
Hillary - WHY ARE YOU GUYS OKAY WITH PAYING FOR A PRODUCT WITH ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNIFICANT PROVEN GAIN. WHY. WHY.
I heard shooting caviar before BJJ matches created a magical beam of myoglobin-exuding aura from your spleen. There's not any science backing it up, but I spent a lot of money on it one time and then felt good, so it must work!
I wish I could find the chart that the geneticists showed us on varying effects of "treatments" on kids with autism. The parent's perception of behavioral improvement showed a strong correlation to the price or difficulty of the treatment, despite the fact that objective MDs saw no such pattern. Chelation, for example, a risky and harmful procedure, was raved by parents as being effective while independent experts saw that it was no different than a gluten-free diet. But I understand it. Hell, I've dropped decent money on some video games that I've convinced myself were good just to not realize the disappointment of being an uninformed consumer.
I paid $100 for the mask to help me control my breathing and overcome a problem I was having with panicing. We are in a sport that demands physical effort when your breathing is obstructed, like working out of a triangle choke or pushing out of north south with your nose or mouth covered. Therefore it makes perfect sense that someone might be interested in a product that mimics that training reality.
Not all gain is measured in labs, we are people in a sport. If wearing a training mask during fight camp helps someone keep it together when they're getting smothered in a fight then I would call that a significant gain.
If you want to challenge the ethics of advertising a product based on a scientific claim which doesn't hold water then fine - but to act like every person who purchased a training mask is just a case of placebo is equally unfounded and really makes you come off as an elitest imo.
How much does your fanciest BJJ gi cost? Mine is a Judo gi that I got wholesale for $34. Does your $100 gi have a "significant proven gain"? Maybe it just makes you feel more comfortable when you're rolling and that is enough to justify the extra $66 - to each their own. Infering that anyone who purchased the product and was satisfied is stupid or uninformed really just makes you come off as a know it all. I kind of think anyone playing a video game past the age of 11 is a moron, but I tend to keep that opinion to myself.
Awesome point, awesome counter point. UG goodness.
99.9% of supplements produce no significant proven results and are laughable when analised against their claims, but people still buy them and swear by them. It's good to bring info to light, but if a placebo helps someone, then good for them.
