Let’s say in UFC 1 Rorion decides to use Craig Kukuk the first non Brazilian BJJ black belt instead of Royce. Royce is smaller, 176 lbs., but a 4 th degree BB so more experienced. Kukuk was a new black belt but 220 lbs. How does Kukuk vs Ken go down?
My guess would be Shamrock. My limited knowledge of Kukuk makes me think his guard was not as good as Royce’s and he wouid have had to play it, like Royce was forced to. Also, I know Royce had done multiple nhb challenge matches before. I’m not sure if the same applies to Kukuk. Finally, Royce had competed in Jiujitsu and was no stranger to competing in front of an audience. I have not heard of Kukuk being in any competition.
I know all of that gives an edge to Royce over Kukuk but still doesn’t mean Kukuk wouid have lost to Shamrock but that’s just my opinion. My understanding of the Kukuk/Renzo partnership was Renzo was more of the competitor, Kukuk more on the business side.
Shammy puts a hurting on Kukuk. I’ve seen a few of Kukuk’s nhb Gracie challenge fights. He was good but couldn’t hold Royce’s jock strap…
Shamrock for sure.
Post some of Kukuk’s challenge fights.
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I think many of you forget
"Royce is still the little brother "
Relson
Shamrock.
The entire fight changed off that terrible straight ankle attempt.
Royce wouldnt have been able to get top and would have had an exhausting fight from bottom against Ken if Ken didnt go for that.
I wonder how rolling between Royce and Kukuk went.
Kukuk spams out a double just like Royce and it goes to the ground. I think it goes very similarly
Ken thought he could put a leg submission on anyone in UFC 1, and that was his main gameplan. So there is a chance he drops back and KuKuk rides the gi like Royce did.
But being a bigger guy, I wonder if KuKuk would rely less on pure technique and try to straight up grapple with Ken.
I’m thinking Ken gets it done, but if he couldn’t get a tap from a leg submission right away he would have to change it up.
Might look more like Ken/Lenninger.
Ken stood a better chance against GJJ after UFC 1, once he understood more what those guys could do.
Ken was way too physical for anyone who relied on pysicality in those days.
He took out Severn despite having no where near Severn's credentials.
HELWIG -Ken was way too physical for anyone who relied on pysicality in those days.
He took out Severn despite having no where near Severn's credentials.
This.
Name one person who manhandled or put a beating on Ken pre WWF.
You can’t because it didn’t happen.
Wow you guys don’t seem to believe in technique and the martial arts.
HELWIG -Ken was way too physical for anyone who relied on pysicality in those days.
He took out Severn despite having no where near Severn's credentials.
No, Ken struggled to overpower Felix Lee Mitchell…this fight right here made me realize that Kens wrestling was not that good
KingMartyrJack -tajmills - Shammy puts a hurting on Kukuk. I've seen a few of Kukuk's nhb Gracie challenge fights. He was good but couldn't hold Royce's jock strap..LOL. He was better than Royce.
Yeah right… According to the OG, 99.9 percent of bjj black belts were/are better than Royce… People put way too much stock into his match with Wallid…
I trained with Craig in NJ he was no joke. Do you think back then they would give the first American BB to just anybody who couldn’t fight.
Kukuk would have won
KingMartyrJack -tajmills -KingMartyrJack -tajmills - Shammy puts a hurting on Kukuk. I've seen a few of Kukuk's nhb Gracie challenge fights. He was good but couldn't hold Royce's jock strap..LOL. He was better than Royce.
Yeah right… According to the OG, 99.9 percent of bjj black belts were/are better than Royce… People put way too much stock into his match with Wallid…
And his match with De LaRiva, and his match with Sakuraba, and his match with Matt Hughes, and his match with… some other BJJ guy.
Face it. He wasn’t close to the best from the family.
Kukuk would maul him and Shamrock.
He lost to De La Riva on points… He wasn’t submitted and De La Riva was an ELITE BB…
Sak and Matt Hughes, arguably 2 of the GOAT fighters… Sak beat Renzo, destroyed Ryan,Vitor B, and a host of other black belts… Matt Hughes was an absolute monster and Royce was way past his prime.
No Royce wasn’t the best in the family but he was a great fighter. He beat monsters and performed better than tons of other black belts would have in the early UFC’s…
Again, I saw some grainy footage of old GJJ challenge matches and one with Kukuk. He was a good fighter but wasn’t on Royce’s level and he wasn’t beating Shamrock…
tajmills -KingMartyrJack -tajmills -KingMartyrJack -tajmills - Shammy puts a hurting on Kukuk. I've seen a few of Kukuk's nhb Gracie challenge fights. He was good but couldn't hold Royce's jock strap..LOL. He was better than Royce.
Yeah right… According to the OG, 99.9 percent of bjj black belts were/are better than Royce… People put way too much stock into his match with Wallid…
And his match with De LaRiva, and his match with Sakuraba, and his match with Matt Hughes, and his match with… some other BJJ guy.
Face it. He wasn’t close to the best from the family.
Kukuk would maul him and Shamrock.
He lost to De La Riva on points… He wasn’t submitted and De La Riva was an ELITE BB…
Sak and Matt Hughes, arguably 2 of the GOAT fighters… Sak beat Renzo, destroyed Ryan,Vitor B, and a host of other black belts… Matt Hughes was an absolute monster and Royce was way past his prime.
No Royce wasn’t the best in the family but he was a great fighter. He beat monsters and performed better than tons of other black belts would have in the early UFC’s…
Again, I saw some grainy footage of old GJJ challenge matches and one with Kukuk. He was a good fighter but wasn’t on Royce’s level and he wasn’t beating Shamrock…
the De la Riva match was at Brown belt actually. Royce was promoted to Black belt just before his 18th birthday and moved to US to help Rorion.
No one can say for sure! Kukuk most likely as Ken was a bit cluless to BJJ yet in UFC1 as everyone was. Craig woulnt be trying to be a world class striker, he woulda went for his bread n butter and being 220 lbs he’d prb do very well. BUT can he take a punch?