Pokanghoya - Tito before the Ken fight was concerned about how strong Ken was based on things he heard. After the first round he said to his corner, "He's not that strong."
prime Ken was stronger than Tito.
201 lb torn ACL Ken was not stronger than prime Tito.
Ken may have been physically stronger, but that means nothing. UFC 40 Tito beats every version of Ken Shamrock. At his best, Ken was slap fighting fixed fights. C'mon meow.
Liyon -BringBackHeadbutts -Not sure if that was prime Tito but that for sure was not prime Ken.
I like to think a prime Ken vs that version of Tito, Ken would have won.
Regardless if it was prime Tito or not, Tito seemed to always have a mental edge on Ken Shamrock by the time they were able to fight each other. He had absolutely no fear of the man and I’d even venture to say he had complete disdain for him. He had zero fear of walking through everything and anything that Ken could throw at him. This is the guy that literally fork-lifted Ken across the octagon.
Contrast Ken to Chuck Liddell who Tito was scared shit-less of, until the most recent incarnation of the Iceman.
Sounds like you're suggesting Tito was not scared of being beat into a living death.
Fabes -Ken may have been physically stronger, but that means nothing. UFC 40 Tito beats every version of Ken Shamrock. At his best, Ken was slap fighting fixed fights. C'mon meow.
All of Ken’s Pancrase wins were legit – with the exception of Hume-- which was an exhibition.
All of his his Pancrase “losses” were worked.
There is absolutely no possible way a fight with a 225 lb prime Ken Shamrock looks like UFC 40.
Tito, at probably the peak of his fighting career, dished out a ton of punishment on old and injured/depleted 201 lb Ken Shamrock.
Ken still managed to buckle Tito’s knees with the only punch he landed, escaped to his feet twice, and did not give up.
It was his corner who threw in the towel.
Tito himself has admitted that he dished out more punishment on Ken than he did anybody, and Ken refused to quit.
Tito gave Ken props.
Tito has also said Ken belongs on MMA’s Mt.Rushmore… for whatever that’s worth.
Imagine how much more punishment Tito would have to inflict on an in shape monster prime HW Ken Shamrock.
I see absolutely no way Tito could finish a prime Ken Shamrock.
Dan Severn said Ken was the only fighter he couldn’t move.
I personally think prime Ken ragdolls any version of Tito.
I also agree with the poster who said the Ken who fought Fujita would beat Tito.
Remember 201 lb torn ACL Ken Shamrock buckling Tito’s knees with one punch.
Sure … Ken had serious cardio issues against Fujita (due to some experimental “supplements”).
But Ken wouldn’t even have to do half the damage he did to Fujita to put Tito away.
Tito couldn’t stand with monster Shamrock – and would have a difficult time taking him down.
Prime Ken Shamrock > Tito Ortiz.
Prime Knee bar Ken = No can defend
He’s the most overrated fighter in the history of the sport.
Fabes -He’s the most overrated fighter in the history of the sport.
LOL
That’s an absurd statement.
Guys like Dan Severn, Oleg Taktarov, Maurice Smith, Brian Johnston, Bas Rutten, Masa FUCKING Funaki, Don Frye, even Tito Ortiz… dis-a-fucking-agree with you.
You should resign your ““mod”” account and take up knitting.
Oops
Nevwrmind.
onepunchJD -Fabes -He’s the most overrated fighter in the history of the sport.
LOL
That’s an absurd statement.
Guys like Dan Severn, Oleg Taktarov, Maurice Smith, Brian Johnston, Bas Rutten, Masa FUCKING Funaki, Don Frye, even Tito Ortiz… dis-a-fucking-agree with you.
You should resign your ““mod”” account and take up knitting.
Overrated. Always will be. Worked fights. And what's wroing with knitting? Hater.
Fabes -onepunchJD -Fabes -He’s the most overrated fighter in the history of the sport.
LOL
That’s an absurd statement.
Guys like Dan Severn, Oleg Taktarov, Maurice Smith, Brian Johnston, Bas Rutten, Masa FUCKING Funaki, Don Frye, even Tito Ortiz… dis-a-fucking-agree with you.
You should resign your ““mod”” account and take up knitting.
Overrated. Always will be. Worked fights. And what's wroing with knitting? Hater.
Nah…
If anything he’s underrated – especially by newer fans.
And there is nothing wrong with knitting.
Guys like Fedor gotta get their sweaters from somewhere.
Fabes - how do you see Prime Ken vs Prime Tito in the clinch going?
With Tito putting Ken on his back. Over and over.
Really? That one sided?
Recently, a facebook friend made a post saying how every time a heel hook is done in the UFC, homeage should be paid to Ken Shamrock.
My dumbass, did not realize that the actual Ken Shamrock was tagged in the post.
Against my normal nature, I posted a gif of Ken falling before the Franklin punch in their UFC fight, and said "soccer players everywhere should thank him for flopping".
Ken responded, could have been a dick about it but he wasn't. He said his ankle gave out. Take that for what it's worth. Just figured I would share b/c I don't recall Ken ever commenting on that aspect of the fight with Rich.
Trying to find the same gif I posted, I couldn't. Strange, as I was able to google the gif just TWO days ago, and now it's not coming up.
It was a longer gif version of this-
Fabes -With Tito putting Ken on his back. Over and over.
Absurd.
Ken had an underrated defensive clinch.
Ken had elite TDD.
You seem to be ignoring basic logic here.
You really don’t think prime HW Ken fares batter than 201 lb/torn Acl/bad neck and shoulders/ old man Ken??
My bias detector is in the red, lol.
BringBackHeadbutts -Recently, a facebook friend made a post saying how every time a heel hook is done in the UFC, homeage should be paid to Ken Shamrock.
My dumbass, did not realize that the actual Ken Shamrock was tagged in the post.
Against my normal nature, I posted a gif of Ken falling before the Franklin punch in their UFC fight, and said "soccer players everywhere should thank him for flopping".
Ken responded, could have been a dick about it but he wasn't. He said his ankle gave out. Take that for what it's worth. Just figured I would share b/c I don't recall Ken ever commenting on that aspect of the fight with Rich.
Trying to find the same gif I posted, I couldn't. Strange, as I was able to google the gif just TWO days ago, and now it's not coming up.
It was a longer gif version of this-
I thought he got jammed up on the mat.
It’s actually not that uncommon in training.
Ken had a nice leg scissor back in the day.
Looked like he was going for it, saw a punch coming, hesitated, and got jammed up.
If his ankle buckled at the same time… that actually makes sense.
Many people don’t have any idea the extent of Ken’s injuries over the years.
Sometimes shit looks fishy because confirmation bias leads us there.
In reality – sometimes guys look awkward attempting to do things they used to be able to pull off.
Remember Mark Kerr KOing himself in Pride??
I’m not saying everything that ever looked fishy is legit.
I’m just saying, many things that people think look fishy – are probably legit more often than some seem to believe.
Ever hurt your back at work and had to miss a day or two?
Know that feeling of returning to work, and people doubting you??
I don’t claim to know for sure either way.
I’m just saying-- walk a mile in a man’s shoes before you judge too harshly.
There is often more to a situation than meets the eye.
I understand what you say, but when there is 2, 3, 4, multiple examples of "questionable" things that happen, you have to wonder.
I remember being surprised how frail Ken looked