MinnowInaMankiniGotAced - "but you start giving guys title shots when they clearly don't deserve it (i think Chael has got to be the most egregious instance of this in recent times)"
Is it really worse than Lesnar getting a title shot with a 2-1 record, one of those 2 wins over an aging gatekeeper and the other a can?
I'm gonna be honest, that was before I really started following the sport obsessively, im a newb. but just from looking at it on paper, it is worse than Lesnar. HW division was extremely shallow and didn't have any semblance of a very deserving contender. Sure there were a few guys that probably had done more than lesnar, but who are we looking back at from 08 that really screwed in that deal? That is not the case at lhw. Hendo doesn't have a good chance to beat bones, but he is legit, has strung together some impressive wins the past couple years, and he is getting screwed over. Who REALLY got screwed over when Lesnar got the title shot?
Werdum was the #1 contender in the UFC at the time, coming off TKO wins over Vera and Gonzaga. He was booked to fight JDS in his UFC debut instead of getting his title shot, because Lesnar was a moneymaker and Werdum not a draw.
im fine equating LHW chael to 2008 brock, but Werdum's claim to the title shot in 2008 does not equal Hendo's right now.
Tomato Can - The Sonnen title shot is absolute bullshit, but are you saying that Diaz is gonna get a title shot before Hendricks? Because if so, that's the first I've heard of it and it fucking blows.
Also, I don't really count GSP/Hardy as a similar case because the division was really threadbare at the time, GSP had cleaned it out and Hardy was the only alternative outside of a Fitch rematch which nobody wanted to see.
I'm not a twitter guy but that's what's being reported acccording to numerous threads on this site. And DIaz is one of my favorites but coming off a loss, (a loss to the guy GSP just dominated) and off for a year for failing his drug test? Come on, this has become a joke, a joke that continues to happen time and time again.
@arielhelwani: Dana said that GSP doesn't ask for much, so he feels like he has to do it. Silva and Hendricks will have to wait.
Note: not that I don't want to see this fight, I hope Nick wrecks GSP and takes the belt hostage. Not likely, GSP almost certainly wins another 5 rounder view positonal dominance. The point being, however, what about the real deserving contender who's sitting on the sideline wondering why he's being skipped over by a guy who just lost and to make matters worse, failed his drug test?
I dont think failing a drug test for weed is a big deal, its not like it was PED.
The only argument to be made is that he lost his last fight even though many thought he won. Thats really the only issue, his failed drug test has little to do with anything.
Chris27 - I dont think failing a drug test for weed is a big deal, its not like it was PED.
The only argument to be made is that he lost his last fight even though many thought he won. Thats really the only issue, his failed drug test has little to do with anything.
Completely disagree. Although it's a joke that it's treated worse than a PED, the fact remains Nick broke the rules, he got busted and he's been suspended for a year while others, (Hendricks for example) have been adding to their resume.
Lets pretend he never got suspended, he just decided to take a year off while the rest of the division is racking up wins. You start to lose your place in line. So he returns from vacation after a loss to the guy who just lost against GSP and he is magically still next in line? That's a horrible system and keep in mind, I'm a Diaz fan who would love to see Diaz win the title. I just don't believe in playing favorites here and dissing other guys who have done everything right in order to get their shot.
Chris27 - I dont think failing a drug test for weed is a big deal, its not like it was PED.
The only argument to be made is that he lost his last fight even though many thought he won. Thats really the only issue, his failed drug test has little to do with anything.
I agree that weed shouldn't be tested for but the missing the press conference and failing a drug test should make Dana think if he can even trust him.
I guess we all have to come to the reality that Ufc isnt really a sport. Its half sport and half entertainement. Theres no real standings, rankings, schedule. The UFC just decides who fights who whenever and when at the drop of hat. I think as they continue to be on PPV its always going to be like that. I think if it was on regular tv like Fox they could then make it more of a sport where you could have a real shedule to fights like a weekly fight and then a tournament and final like other sports. At status quo its kind of a toss up. Anyone can get a title fight at any time. Theres no real formula for anything.
U rank fighters in a division by wins and losses.......period.
If you have 2 guys with a 4 fight win streak, you have them fight each other for a title shot! How hard is that? Sonnen is coming off a whoopin at middleweight and he gets a fight with Jon Jones? Nick Diaz is coming off a long suspension and a loss to condit, and he gets a title shot??????
Zuffa rank fighters based on performance not popularity!!!
If fights get made based souley on rankings people complain about missing the fights they want to see, if they make fights fans ask for people complain its not legit.
Mma has the most fickle fans imaginable and personally I think the ufc does an amazing job catering to both camps.
One things fans don't see is how much bs the ufc has to put up with making matches between injuries and guys turning down fights. The sonnen fight is an example of running out of contenders willing to take a fight resulting in mismatched fights.
With the trend of recent fights the ufc is going in the wrong direction but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that when a legit contender exists they will get their deserved shot.
1) I think Diaz getting a title shot is absolute bullshit. I mean it's not any worse than Sonnen, but Hendricks has CLEARLY earned it while Diaz hasn't even won a fight since 2011.
2) I'm of two minds about Rousey. On the one hand, she's the best female fighter in the world. On the other hand, women's weight classes are ridiculously thin and she's now the least accomplished UFC champ by a pretty vast margin.
If fights get made based souley on rankings people complain about missing the fights they want to see, if they make fights fans ask for people complain its not legit.
Mma has the most fickle fans imaginable and personally I think the ufc does an amazing job catering to both camps.
One things fans don't see is how much bs the ufc has to put up with making matches between injuries and guys turning down fights. The sonnen fight is an example of running out of contenders willing to take a fight resulting in mismatched fights.
With the trend of recent fights the ufc is going in the wrong direction but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that when a legit contender exists they will get their deserved shot.
Don't prove me wrong ufc!!!
You don't think Hendricks is the deserving contender you're speaking of?
And again, I want to see the Diaz/GSP fight but it certainly shouldn't be for the title. Diaz hasn't earned a title shot and we both know that. The same goes for Sonnen and do you really want to see him fight Jones? There is absolutely nothing there other than manufactured drama.
SupesUp -
If fights get made based souley on rankings people complain about missing the fights they want to see, if they make fights fans ask for people complain its not legit.
Mma has the most fickle fans imaginable and personally I think the ufc does an amazing job catering to both camps.
One things fans don't see is how much bs the ufc has to put up with making matches between injuries and guys turning down fights. The sonnen fight is an example of running out of contenders willing to take a fight resulting in mismatched fights.
With the trend of recent fights the ufc is going in the wrong direction but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that when a legit contender exists they will get their deserved shot.
Don't prove me wrong ufc!!!
You don't think Hendricks is the deserving contender you're speaking of?
And again, I want to see the Diaz/GSP fight but it certainly shouldn't be for the title. Diaz hasn't earned a title shot and we both know that. The same goes for Sonnen and do you really want to see him fight Jones? There is absolutely nothing there other than manufactured drama.
No no no Hendricks is 100% the top contender but I believe he will get his title shot as he deserves just as I believe if Weidman is as good as we think he is he will as well.
And as for a champ fighting against a guy in his division and having it not for the title, that is ludicrous.
SupesUp -
If fights get made based souley on rankings people complain about missing the fights they want to see, if they make fights fans ask for people complain its not legit.
Mma has the most fickle fans imaginable and personally I think the ufc does an amazing job catering to both camps.
One things fans don't see is how much bs the ufc has to put up with making matches between injuries and guys turning down fights. The sonnen fight is an example of running out of contenders willing to take a fight resulting in mismatched fights.
With the trend of recent fights the ufc is going in the wrong direction but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that when a legit contender exists they will get their deserved shot.
Don't prove me wrong ufc!!!
You don't think Hendricks is the deserving contender you're speaking of?
And again, I want to see the Diaz/GSP fight but it certainly shouldn't be for the title. Diaz hasn't earned a title shot and we both know that. The same goes for Sonnen and do you really want to see him fight Jones? There is absolutely nothing there other than manufactured drama.
No no no Hendricks is 100% the top contender but I believe he will get his title shot as he deserves just as I believe if Weidman is as good as we think he is he will as well.
And as for a champ fighting against a guy in his division and having it not for the title, that is ludicrous.
Sure it is, agreed. But not nearly as ludicrous as a guy coming off a loss in his own division and suspenssion no less, waltzing right into a title shot. Way to remove all credibility of said title shot.
SupesUp -
If fights get made based souley on rankings people complain about missing the fights they want to see, if they make fights fans ask for people complain its not legit.
Mma has the most fickle fans imaginable and personally I think the ufc does an amazing job catering to both camps.
One things fans don't see is how much bs the ufc has to put up with making matches between injuries and guys turning down fights. The sonnen fight is an example of running out of contenders willing to take a fight resulting in mismatched fights.
With the trend of recent fights the ufc is going in the wrong direction but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that when a legit contender exists they will get their deserved shot.
Don't prove me wrong ufc!!!
You don't think Hendricks is the deserving contender you're speaking of?
And again, I want to see the Diaz/GSP fight but it certainly shouldn't be for the title. Diaz hasn't earned a title shot and we both know that. The same goes for Sonnen and do you really want to see him fight Jones? There is absolutely nothing there other than manufactured drama.
No no no Hendricks is 100% the top contender but I believe he will get his title shot as he deserves just as I believe if Weidman is as good as we think he is he will as well.
And as for a champ fighting against a guy in his division and having it not for the title, that is ludicrous.
Sure it is, agreed. But not nearly as ludicrous as a guy coming off a loss in his own division and suspenssion no less, waltzing right into a title shot. Way to remove all credibility of said title shot.
whether someone "earns" or "deserves" the title shot that they get can be open for debate.
once the cage door closes, if you are in a title fight with the champ, and beat the champ, you are the champ and earned the title in the fight.
i can accept people saying the title shot wasn't earned, but that doesn't nullify what happens in the cage.
SupesUp -
If fights get made based souley on rankings people complain about missing the fights they want to see, if they make fights fans ask for people complain its not legit.
Mma has the most fickle fans imaginable and personally I think the ufc does an amazing job catering to both camps.
One things fans don't see is how much bs the ufc has to put up with making matches between injuries and guys turning down fights. The sonnen fight is an example of running out of contenders willing to take a fight resulting in mismatched fights.
With the trend of recent fights the ufc is going in the wrong direction but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that when a legit contender exists they will get their deserved shot.
Don't prove me wrong ufc!!!
You don't think Hendricks is the deserving contender you're speaking of?
And again, I want to see the Diaz/GSP fight but it certainly shouldn't be for the title. Diaz hasn't earned a title shot and we both know that. The same goes for Sonnen and do you really want to see him fight Jones? There is absolutely nothing there other than manufactured drama.
No no no Hendricks is 100% the top contender but I believe he will get his title shot as he deserves just as I believe if Weidman is as good as we think he is he will as well.
And as for a champ fighting against a guy in his division and having it not for the title, that is ludicrous.
Sure it is, agreed. But not nearly as ludicrous as a guy coming off a loss in his own division and suspenssion no less, waltzing right into a title shot. Way to remove all credibility of said title shot.
whether someone "earns" or "deserves" the title shot that they get can be open for debate.
once the cage door closes, if you are in a title fight with the champ, and beat the champ, you are the champ and earned the title in the fight.
i can accept people saying the title shot wasn't earned, but that doesn't nullify what happens in the cage.
Hughes fought Riggs in a non title fight, what's the issue?
Anderson fought Lutter in a non title fight, what's the issue?
MinnowInaMankiniGotAced - ^ Those fights were both supposed to be for the title except the challengers didn't make weight.
If Hughes or Silva lost, it would have been an issue.
What would the issue have been, they were fighting middle weights and light heavyweights respectively? If Anderson had lost to Either Bonner, Griffin or Irvin, would there have been an issue? Those guys were over the middle weight limit as well.
I don't see a problem with a side attraction fight where the champ does not defend his title if a credible opponent is not available. In this case There is one but he's being skipped over for a guy who does not deserve the title shot. And if he does not deserve the shot, he shouldn't get a shot just because he's getting the fight.
In the same division, Dana White himself said that if Anderson comes down to 170 to fight GSP, it would be a non title fight. And that's what I'm having a problem with, the inconsistency. Anderson wont get a shot even though he hasn't lost in 7 years against much bigger and better fighters than GSP has been defending against. But Diaz gets a title shot coming off a loss and a suspenssion while there's a more worhty challenger?
And lets add Meisha Tate and Holy Holm to the discussion. Nevermind Cain/Werdum instant rematch.
Holm is no where near a title shot. Tate was announced and then taken away.
This is all par for the course, but lets not pretend like these belts mean anything.
Cyborg herself has zero interest in Ronda's belt, she just wants to kick the shit out of Rousey but Ronda will have nothign to do with it at 140. The excuse? There isn't a 140 pound weight division and it must be for the belt.
SinCityHustler - And lets add Meisha Tate and Holy Holm to the discussion. Nevermind Cain/Werdum instant rematch.
Holm is no where near a title shot. Tate was announced and then taken away.
This is all par for the course, but lets not pretend like these belts mean anything.
Cyborg herself has zero interest in Ronda's belt, she just wants to kick the shit out of Rousey but Ronda will have nothign to do with it at 140. The excuse? There isn't a 140 pound weight division and it must be for the belt.
How convenient.
This is a great thread and three times as relevant as the day you made it.
When shots are given all haphazardly, there is a lack of an incentive to fight your way into a title match and more of a incentive to talk your way into it.
Then you have fights like Arlovski / Mir. Arlovski is fighting careful and not to lose because he already deserved a shot and Cain, who had not defended his title for 2 years, is given an immediate title shot. The credibility is gone. We used to know Cain was a machine in 2010 when he faced all comers and actually earned his shot. Now we don't have that measuring stick when the only unique fighters he's had since beating Brock are Junior Dos Santos, Bigfoot Silva, and Fabricio Werdum. Worse yet, despite him losing 2 out of 6 in those fights, he's still being forced to us. If he wins the title, it is incredibly difficult to consider him a tested champion in 2015's landscape when favoritism is a greater determinant than the hard work of clearing out a division.
