Funny thing is that Leben was the biggest win for both Bisping and Stann.
OriginalTUFer - The biggest reason that Leben hasn't gotten there is that there are not clear contenders at MW, like there are at other weights.
The only "elite guys" Chris has faced have been:
Anderson
Akiyama
Wand
He lost to Anderson, submitted Akiyama, and destroyed Wand. Yet you all diminish his two wins because Akiyama is overrated and Wand is washed up. LOL! Think about this, he has only fought two guys who have fought for UFC gold (Cote and Anderson). The MW division is such a clusterfuck that they have never really had a well-established elite tier of the division.
That's why names are all that count and Chris has tons of finishes against big MW names.
lol @ Akiyama being elite because Leben beat him , but Bisping isn't on the list ...... even though he TOOLED the pair of them .
you rate Leben , we get it ! 
this is a hardcore troll job , not easy to back out of , needs to be committed and it looks like he is !!
i hope vanderlei knows how Sak felt after he beat him 3 times.
oh oh wait ... I've got one !
Vitor beat Franklin who beat Wand !
the both KO'd that one black guy !
so Vitor is more accomplished !!
Leben is 7-6 in his last 13 fights (including loss to Anderson)... In my opinion, he is a mid B level fighter. I mean, two of his wins were in (albeit impressive) hail mary fashion. He was losing to both Terry Martin, and Akiyama. I'm not taking anything away from those wins, as they truly displayed how tough he is, and were more than well deserved wins.
I think he's improved a lot since TUF, especially with his ground game. That being said, he has been exposed against guys with polished stand up, and guys that have top submission games.
In addition to the guys he's already lost to, I think that Belfort, Munoz, Henderson, Maia, Jacare, and Marquardt would also beat him.
he doesn't need to fight that Winstrol Leben anymore,Id rather see him fight Drew McFredies
Retire Wand Dana
OriginalTUFer - Yeah, I hear that. I think they are talking about the elite in the UFC.
The elite in the UFC consists of the champion, the guy slated to fight the champion, and a guy who just lost to the champion.
I don't know if I need to call Leben elite, but he has more wins than any other MW in UFC history and he deserves a ton of respect by the fans.
I appreciate you not going along with NPD's nonsense. Of course we are talking about this in the context of the UFC. Pretty much everyone in the UFC is elite when you are talking about all MMA fighters.
wanderlei vs akiyama needs to happen.
jjj2121 - To be out nearly 18 months, work your ass off and then get blasted out of there in under 30 sec by a TUF reject.
Fuck.
Being a fighter sure has to suck sometimes.
disbeliever - Sometimes someone needs to step in and stop a fighter from hurting themselves forever. Wand is a warrior and will always want one more fight, even if his brain cannot handle it anymore.
I don;t want to see him hurt anymore
Agreed!!
BJJkilla - wanderlei vs akiyama needs to happen.
no, not really
I say give Wand one more chance. Give him someone at the bottom of the UFC Middleweight division who's coming off a couple losses. It's only fair to let him have his final chance against another guy who is in the same spot. He was coming off a long layoff and fought Leben like an idiot. He could absolutely have won that fight, but he came at Leben in the worst way possible. If Wand wants to stay he needs to show that he can fight technically and fight with his brain, just like he did against Bisping.
I hate seeing Wanderlei get knocked out, but the man is a true legend of the sport and has shown that he still hasa little something to give if he quits brawling with people. He has no business fighting someone in the top ten at this point, but that doesn't mean that he can't bring it against someone low in the division. The man just went through surgery so he could keep fighting, he's given so much to the sport, and all he's asking for is one more shot.
I'm torn on this one. I'd love to see him fight again, but i would rather he didn't.
OriginalTUFer -bmoney - Leben is 7-6 in his last 13 fights (including loss to Anderson)... In my opinion, he is a mid B level fighter. I mean, two of his wins were in (albeit impressive) hail mary fashion. He was losing to both Terry Martin, and Akiyama. I'm not taking anything away from those wins, as they truly displayed how tough he is, and were more than well deserved wins.How interesting that you choose his last 13 fights as your unit of analysis. Is it because you were trying to speak to all of his UFC losses, while discounting 5 of his wins? Nice bias.
I think he's improved a lot since TUF, especially with his ground game. That being said, he has been exposed against guys with polished stand up, and guys that have top submission games.
In addition to the guys he's already lost to, I think that Belfort, Munoz, Henderson, Maia, Jacare, and Marquardt would also beat him.
Who cares if his wins were in "hail mary fashion", that does not make them any less credible.
Another Leben hater, I get it.<br type="_moz" />
Ok, he's 4-3 in his last seven fights... and 4-1 in his last five.
My point is that he's a mid B level fighter at best...Do you honestly think he'd beat someone with a solid ground game, or good, disciplined stand up?
I'm not saying that he hasn't amassed impressive wins, which he has. He's better than most people give him credit for. He's just not elite..He has an iron chin, power in his hands, and isn't afraid to stand toe to toe. I just don't see him being part of the elite middle weight group, that's all.
I'm not quite understanding all the hate for Leben. The guy comes to fight every time and puts on a show win or lose. Maybe he can' beat the top top guys but he is living his dream, doing well in the cage, and training his students back at his school. He's a 1 of a kind fighter. There is noone else like him. He desreves a lil more respect imo.
wand is my favorite fighter and always will be, but it was extremely depressing to see him losing in that fashion again.
he did the exact same thing with the rampage 3 fight.
he says he is working his boxing but still throws wide looping punches and pays for it. His chin is not the same and that was an essential part of his stand up.
I always wish the best for wand but I believe it is time to wrap it up.
wand is 2-6 in his last 8 with 4 losses via bad KO's.
I think its time to hang the gloves up for this legend.
I think they should feed Sonnen to him so Silva can redeem himself. They are both coming off of losses and I think he would dominate Sonnen.