"Nice rant HELWIG, shame it has fuck all to do with the topic.
No one is 'hating' on Syliva here, but comments have been brought up that relate to Fedor. Chillax."
Its simply direct observation, my friend. MMA has THE WORST fanbase precisely because of what I hinted at.
No other sport has even close to the amount of wannabe posers who spend their time talking shit and spewing ignorant opinions.
Think of the F'ing AUDACITY a person must have, the total disconnect and lack of any sort of legitimacy to shit on guys like Sylvia and Fedor.
JimmersonzGlove - "And when PRIDE folded he started fighting guys not even in the top 10 (Choi, Sylvia etc ...)"
LOL Sylvia was top 10 in everyones rankings at the time of the Fedor fight.
At the time of the Sylvia fight, who should Fedor have been fighting?
Brock was 2-1 with his only wins being Min Su Kim and decisioning Heath Herring.
Carwin only had 1 UFC fight, no top ten wins, and his only UFC fight was the very first fight of the night on the undercard.
JDS wasn't in the UFC yet and was 1-1 in his last 2.
Cain was only 3-0 and his only fight in the UFC at that point was over Brad Morris.
Randy Couture hadn't fought in a year.
So when Fedor was fighting "non top 10" people like Sylvia...who did you and the general public want him to fight? That's such shitty revisionist history.
Exactly. (Minor correction, though: Brock was actually 1-1 at the time of the Fedor-Sylvia fight, just coming off his submission loss to Mir and hadn't even beaten Herring yet. So Brock still had NO meaningful wins for his MMA career to that point.)
The bottom-line reality is that guys like Brock, Cain, Carwin, and JDS weren't even really peripherally on the top contenders' radar at that point. In fact, NONE of them were even on a single major, credible top-10 ranking at the time - while Sylvia was in fact on EVERY single one of them (and was still easily a consensus top-5 HW at the time). (Just like Arlovski was on EVERY major, credible top-5 ranking at the time of his Fedor fight.)
If Fedor had actually fought ANY of Brock, Cain, Carwin, and JDS, instead of Sylvia - it would have been a JOKE. NONE of them had an even remotely A-level win for their careers yet - and Fedor would have been roundly RIDICULED for facing them instead (especially a 1-1 "freak show" who was MUCH more known for his pro-wrestling fame than his actual MMA credentials at that point).
Except ironically now, in purely revisionist hindsight, Fedor is being ridiculed for NOT facing guys who were not even arguably legit or credible contenders yet - and for instead facing a MUCH more established top contender at the time.
Darth BLAF - But it's just fucking precious how years later, EVERYONE who shit all over Tim Sylvia while he was actually beating quality opponents is suddenly twisting themselves into pretzels desperately trying to prop up the downward spiral losing 2 out of his last 3 Tim Sylvia just to give God Fedor some supposedly awesome top 10 win.
Just like how "it's just fucking precious" how the SAME people who used to go around spouting with girlishly giddy glee (orcus) the report that Fedor had been ducking Sylvia and had even altogether ducked signing with the UFC specifically because he had wanted "no part of" ever facing Sylvia - and who were still faithfully repeating this claim even up until the fight itself was announced - would then turn around and claim that Fedor's win over Sylvia was ultimately meaningless.
Only AFTER Fedor actually beat him, of course.
(Or how the SAME guys who had been propping Sylvia up before the fight - how Sylvia's back was now all healed up after his surgery after the Randy fight, and had actually looked better than EVER against Nog [an argument orcus made, which I actually agreed with at the time, ha-ha] - then turned around and IMMEDIATELY started to tear Sylvia down right after the Fedor fight, and tried to re-characterize him as this guy who had already been exposed as being on this dramatic "downward spiral," and was not considered even a top guy at all.)
Pick your hypocrisy.
lockon - ^
Kinda dodged the question then went on ranting about some nonsense regarding Sylvia's shift in the rankings when it pertains to Fedor's status.
Yeah, you noticed that, too, huh? I doubt we'll get a direct answer from him (or anyone else) on that question, though, just more of his usual rage-rants.
(Btw, "Darth BLAF" is just the latest screen name of long-time [and oft-banned] troll krycek - also formerly known as the poster "BLAF," "Chuck Kongo," etc. - a chronic and all-purpose basher of K-1, Pride, Japanese MMA/fight promotions, hell Japanese culture in general - actually basher of all-things non-UFC in general. But in addition to the Japanese, he doesn't seem too fond of Brazilians and Russians either - and especially fighters across various nationalities but who happen to fit, let's just say, a certain "profile," ha-ha. [Just try asking him his opinions on Alistair, Sapp, Rampage, Anderson, Kongo... I think you'll probably discover a certain theme there, ha-ha.]
Btw, krycek, I have to say, the blue name threw me for a bit - your first, isn't it? Fortunately, though, your one-note blustering angry-man shtick is still the same, and still as distinctly recognizable as it is constant. Along with your particular combination of fixations, of course. But man, I honestly cannot wait to see more of your posts now that Alistair is on a high and a hot topic of discussion here. Let's see - not with the UFC, competes in Japan, and is even a K-1 fighter - and of course he has the right "tone"... He's like all of your complexes rolled into one, ha-ha. Really looking forward to your blow-ups. I can almost imagine your old-man fist shaking in the air.)
Whistleblower, you're one of my favorite posters. I actually had this very conversation Saturday night with a friend! He said "They're [Sylvia and Arlovski] bums! What have they done since?" I said "Nothing, but that doesn't matter! Where were they at the time?", we agreed to disagree. I have realized that this argument can never be "won". You either look at it through the distortion of current (then future) knowledge, or you try to keep in the perspective of history. Neither side will ever give, but by all means, carry on! 
You only have to do a search to see that when Pride folded and Fedor didn't go into the UFC, a lot of posters were saying it was because he was ducking Sylvia. That the threads existed isn't an opinion, its a simple fact, as anyone can test for themselves. And like today, there were an equal number of people saying that Fedor wasn't ducking Sylvia, he was just looking out for the best deal (at the time including the right to continue sambo).
Before that there were a few people who thought Arlovski could beat Fedor, but that was rare. The real hate started when he didn't go into the UFC. But he's always had both critics and defenders, much like most fighters who've been around awhile accumulate - take a look at all the heat GSP, Hughes, BJ, Anderson, Brock, Machida, Shogun have taken over the years. Its part of the sport, and I doubt Fedor's feelings are hurt by what people say.
If that was Fedor instead of Cain, Brock seriously might have been stretched out of there.
Cain is or at least will be after a few more fights a major challenge for Fedor because of his skills and mental game.
Your yearning to backup Fedor on every post is to be admired wb. Misplaced loyalty imho, but admirable all the same.
You have to concede that during that time (2005ish) very very few people had anyone but Fedor as the clear #1.
PS. The plaudits of people you convince with your verbosity is equally impressive.
Bobby Lupo has it right.
pulsar, you cant argue with wb's facts on MMA. Nobody here can. I check most of the stuff he says against both my own memory and the original source material references.
If he says "I think A will beat B" thats just an opinion.
But he shuts goofballs on here down with extreme prejudice, week after week. Youd think theyd give up after being shown as the clueless asshats they are.
"I actually had this very conversation Saturday night with a friend! He said "They're [Sylvia and Arlovski] bums! What have they done since?"
Its the dumbest line of thinking since A beat B, B beat C, so A will beat C.
If Nancy Kerrigan never was able to skate again after Harding had her assaulted, does that mean she was never any good?
Sylvia and Arlovski(as well as Rogers) were taken out in HORRENDOUS fashion. Losses like that(less for Rogers but mentally hard as an undefeated man in the biggest test of his career) are very damaging to a career.
Only Prime versions of Nog and Michael Cro Cop ever really bounced back to top form and while they got hosed, they werent brutally finished.
Its hardly surprising after being beaten by Fedor that most guys dont just bounce back and go on hot streaks.
The only relevant thing in that discussion is where they were at the time of the fight. What they did after only matters in all-time ranking discussions when the athlete is retired.
Well I think the first incorrect step would be say he can't be challenged. I'm sure wb likes the challenge to be honest. There's a certain level of subjectivity in what we all type here, so it's be expected individual opinions have as much to add in the formation of someone's stance than hard data.
Now, shutting down folks with limited MMA knowledge is a valuable service, however as noted above you do run into opinion over fact.
This discussion for me is straight forward. Some of my most volumous posting was around that period - I know because my job at the time allowed me to type on here non stop for some years. Fedor was universally loved, there's no if's but's or and's, he was. No one liked anything as far as HW in UFC. Only the real fools would have talked about Sylvia beating him or... Anyone in fact.
Oh and btw, A, B, C matchmaking is kind of the basis of what we have today... NOT working with that framework allows more subjectivity on what styles an individual thinks makes fights. I prefer a contender based system including progressing to a title shot, not the haphazard nature of lining up fights according to opinion.