What the Ortega Loss Says About Frankie

Thoughts?

IMO, the only thing it really says is that it's possible to KO him. It doesn't show a deteriorated chin - the elbow and uppercuts would likely have finished everybody. And even with them, he wasn't out for long.

Ortega is a stylistic oddity. I'm not sure anybody but CRE and T-City himself knew how good T-City would be on the feet. But Frankie was still outlanding him. However, as Chael pointed out in his post-fight commentary, T-City's guillotine attempt threw off Frankie's striking. Frankie has never been a pure striker. He's a wrestle-boxer. And T-City made Frankie not want to wrestle.

I don't think anyone else would do that to him.

In terms of, 'what does this say about Frankie v. Holloway or Conor?' I think it simply shows that Frankie can be finished. But it says little about the fights, because Frankie would be more aggressive with his wrestling.

Frankie has been wobbled a few times in the past.

I really think he should be fighting at 135. He's way too outsized, even at 145. The next generation of fighters are just so much bigger.

JOB - Frankie has been wobbled a few times in the past.

I really think he should be fighting at 135. He's way too outsized, even at 145. The next generation of fighters are just so much bigger.

Yeah, I agree with this. I was shocked as the size difference. It honestly looked AT LEAST comparable to the differences between Frankie and Maynard and Bendo.

frankie was 75% ko'd a few times, gray and stephens are a few i can remember

the 100% ko was an eventuality

everyone will get ko'd in mma if u fight long enough, especially if u fight top guys

^^No doubt. Frankie has a fine chin, but not an iron one. His survival was due to an iron will and excellent ring IQ.

Frankie didn't want to dive into a sub when he was hurt after Ortega just latched onto the first guillotine attempt. It will be hard to beat Ortega because if you take him down you are likely to get submitted and if you stand up with him he has shown enough power and variety in strikes to finish you on the feet.

ranier wolfcastle -


frankie was 75% ko'd a few times, gray and stephens are a few i can remember



the 100% ko was an eventuality



everyone will get ko'd in mma if u fight long enough, especially if u fight top guys

You could say the same for Gajthe as well. 

cyberc92 -

Frankie didn't want to dive into a sub when he was hurt after Ortega just latched onto the first guillotine attempt. It will be hard to beat Ortega because if you take him down you are likely to get submitted and if you stand up with him he has shown enough power and variety in strikes to finish you on the feet.

This is similar to the Werdum vs Cain fight. 

Non N00B -
cyberc92 -

Frankie didn't want to dive into a sub when he was hurt after Ortega just latched onto the first guillotine attempt. It will be hard to beat Ortega because if you take him down you are likely to get submitted and if you stand up with him he has shown enough power and variety in strikes to finish you on the feet.

This is similar to the Werdum vs Cain fight. 

Perfect example.

It’s odd to see Ortega destroy Frankie at the end of rd 1 and then barely scrape by guida who was beating him if I remember correctly until Ortega landed the knee.

thats what comes to mind when I see someone like Frankie get koed or aldo knocked out by Conor. The cliche mma math doesn’t work statement couldn’t be truer

cyberc92 - 

Frankie didn't want to dive into a sub when he was hurt after Ortega just latched onto the first guillotine attempt. It will be hard to beat Ortega because if you take him down you are likely to get submitted and if you stand up with him he has shown enough power and variety in strikes to finish you on the feet.


It's so rare to be so good off your back that an all-time great like Frankie, who has beat up great fighters on the ground, is scared to be on top even for a moment.

danybayamon23 -

It’s odd to see Ortega destroy Frankie at the end of rd 1 and then barely scrape by guida who was beating him if I remember correctly until Ortega landed the knee.

thats what comes to mind when I see someone like Frankie get koed or aldo knocked out by Conor. The cliche mma math doesn’t work statement couldn’t be truer

I think it's more along the lines or Ortega is improving RAPIDLY. The dude is obviously a sponge but is now directing it towards other things than trying to win more BJJ comps for little money

He got caught with a big elbow. Many fighters would have been rocked by that shot. Frankie looked good up until then. 

^^

(1) Ortega is definitely rapidly improving.

(2) Frankie did look good until getting caught. Unlike other opponents, Frankie couldn't react to being rocked by shooting in on a takedown.

ive never seen someone improve at this rate, its insane.

the guillotine did play a huge part in this fight, i read people talk about how conor would for sure ko frankie after seeing that and that might be true but its not the same. frankie could shoot take down after take down on conor with no risk so it would be a different fight. with oretga he became timid after one shot and a guilltine attempt. it made him think twice and try to stick with the boxing and he got caught with a slick elbow. 

2 things led to his finish. 1 being oretgas otherworldly calmness, i dont think we've ever seen this level of calmness and this meshes with 2 which is frankie trying to clinch rather then back off and get on his bike till he recovered. frankie thought he could clinch and recover which with most fighters would have been the case. most fighters would get excited and over commit on big punches allowing frankie to clinch but ortega didnt do that, he handled it perfect and was just touching him up to keep him away from the clinch until he saw him dazed enough he was able to reach back home to torrance with his uppercut and knock frankie off the ground with it.

we gotta give ortega credit for that elbow, watch it in slow mow and you will see how great it was. i cant remember if it started as a jab or a hook but he redirected it halfway to the target and switched it to an elbow that landed flush cuz frankie was defedning the punch. this might sound easy but it is 100% not easy. tricky striking like this is what makes an mma striker great. its not boxing so things like this is what really work. jon jones is a great example. and then staying calm and handling it perfectly allowing him time to setup the worlds biggest uppercut (rivaling ngannous).

so we cant really blame frankie for this, we gotta give t city his due. the kid is legit.

TakinAllFades - 

ive never seen someone improve at this rate, its insane.

the guillotine did play a huge part in this fight, i read people talk about how conor would for sure ko frankie after seeing that and that might be true but its not the same. frankie could shoot take down after take down on conor with no risk so it would be a different fight. with oretga he became timid after one shot and a guilltine attempt. it made him think twice and try to stick with the boxing and he got caught with a slick elbow. 

2 things led to his finish. 1 being oretgas otherworldly calmness, i dont think we've ever seen this level of calmness and this meshes with 2 which is frankie trying to clinch rather then back off and get on his bike till he recovered. frankie thought he could clinch and recover which with most fighters would have been the case. most fighters would get excited and over commit on big punches allowing frankie to clinch but ortega didnt do that, he handled it perfect and was just touching him up to keep him away from the clinch until he saw him dazed enough he was able to reach back home to torrance with his uppercut and knock frankie off the ground with it.

we gotta give ortega credit for that elbow, watch it in slow mow and you will see how great it was. i cant remember if it started as a jab or a hook but he redirected it halfway to the target and switched it to an elbow that landed flush cuz frankie was defedning the punch. this might sound easy but it is 100% not easy. tricky striking like this is what makes an mma striker great. its not boxing so things like this is what really work. jon jones is a great example. and then staying calm and handling it perfectly allowing him time to setup the worlds biggest uppercut (rivaling ngannous).

so we cant really blame frankie for this, we gotta give t city his due. the kid is legit.


I agree with every word of this post.

All it says is: Frankie ran into the future of the division on his way to the top. Frankie looked fine in the fight, but Ortega was just bigger and better. This dude is going to be a nightmare for Holloway. 

Sucks that the UFC didn’t pay Conor to fight Frankie, but they made a Star with Ortega. 

Bobby Lupo - 

All it says is: Frankie ran into the future of the division on his way to the top. Frankie looked fine in the fight, but Ortega was just bigger and better. This dude is going to be a nightmare for Holloway. 

Sucks that the UFC didn’t pay Conor to fight Frankie, but they made a Star with Ortega. 


Agreed.

wiggum - Thoughts?

IMO, the only thing it really says is that it's possible to KO him. It doesn't show a deteriorated chin - the elbow and uppercuts would likely have finished everybody. And even with them, he wasn't out for long.

Ortega is a stylistic oddity. I'm not sure anybody but CRE and T-City himself knew how good T-City would be on the feet. But Frankie was still outlanding him. However, as Chael pointed out in his post-fight commentary, T-City's guillotine attempt threw off Frankie's striking. Frankie has never been a pure striker. He's a wrestle-boxer. And T-City made Frankie not want to wrestle.

I don't think anyone else would do that to him.

In terms of, 'what does this say about Frankie v. Holloway or Conor?' I think it simply shows that Frankie can be finished. But it says little about the fights, because Frankie would be more aggressive with his wrestling.

I’ve been praising Ortega’s standup since I watched the Moicano fight. He’s very calm in the pocket and has demonstrated he has a great chin. He has very good hands, very technical, and I was trying to tell you guys but everybody kept telling me I was crazy.. Brian Ortega can beat McGregor anyway he wants.. McGregor won’t take that fight because Ortega has his kryptonite in his arsenal too, a mean submission game. Ortega is a complete package. Well spoken, good human being, angelic looking, and a great fighter in the cage. He made it on his own too, UFC marketing machine isn’t the reason ppl are becoming aware of this guy, it’s because of his body of work in the cage. If UFC puts a promotional push behind him he easily becomes a star..

KnockoutThoughts - 
wiggum - Thoughts?

IMO, the only thing it really says is that it's possible to KO him. It doesn't show a deteriorated chin - the elbow and uppercuts would likely have finished everybody. And even with them, he wasn't out for long.

Ortega is a stylistic oddity. I'm not sure anybody but CRE and T-City himself knew how good T-City would be on the feet. But Frankie was still outlanding him. However, as Chael pointed out in his post-fight commentary, T-City's guillotine attempt threw off Frankie's striking. Frankie has never been a pure striker. He's a wrestle-boxer. And T-City made Frankie not want to wrestle.

I don't think anyone else would do that to him.

In terms of, 'what does this say about Frankie v. Holloway or Conor?' I think it simply shows that Frankie can be finished. But it says little about the fights, because Frankie would be more aggressive with his wrestling.

I’ve been praising Ortega’s standup since I watched the Moicano fight. He’s very calm in the pocket and has demonstrated he has a great chin. He has very good hands, very technical, and I was trying to tell you guys but everybody kept telling me I was crazy.. Brian Ortega can beat McGregor anyway he wants.. McGregor won’t take that fight because Ortega has his kryptonite in his arsenal too, a mean submission game. Ortega is a complete package. Well spoken, good human being, angelic looking, and a great fighter in the cage. He made it on his own too, UFC marketing machine isn’t the reason ppl are becoming aware of this guy, it’s because of his body of work in the cage. If UFC puts a promotional push behind him he easily becomes a star..


Nobody in MMA has ever handled Conor in the standup. Nate was a human heavy bag against Conor until he gassed, and he managed to rally in the second fight and still box Nate up.

Ortega's good, and he's calm in the cage, but he's not going 10 rounds with the greatest boxer of his generation in his pro debut.

Conor might be an unlikeable dickhead, but he's far and away the best MMA striker we've seen to this point.

Everybody's got a guy who's a stylistic nightmare for Conor...until Conor puts them to sleep