Where to train in Denver?

Underground
41

" They had one guy that was literally throwing everybody he matched up with."

Ah... that would be Matt Lackey. The most annoyingly relaxed individual to ever grapple lol. "Hey... where's Matt? He's up next." Much searching ensues, officials are threatening to disqualify him, and last call is made before Matt is found sleeping under bleachers.

Wake him up, he walks onto mats rubbing sleep from his eyes, and commences to toss everyone he faced. No one scored a point on him.

His first submission tournament ever was GQ in Vegas. I believe he won his division without being scored on there either. Had to be woken up twice in that one.

Great guy and funny as hell too. Just not the type of intense, ultra-competitive guy you normally run into at the upper levels of competition. Hard to believe anyone as laid back as him could be such a monster on the mats.

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www.zinganobjj.com

43

Stop by and try out some classes bro.

44

Denver has some of the best training around. So many great teachers all with a different approach towards the same goal: improving your game.

I have two problems with this thread though:

#1 calling the pancrase tourny "bogus". It still a pretty young tournament that gets better and better every year. It does draw the locals, but our locals are pretty damn good. Each year more and more non locals enter as well. It is well run, and provides great technical grappling for the fans. Its all good in my book, but what do I know.

#2 Jeff Ford's comment on no complete schools in the area. I think there isn't a complete school in the world. Everyone approaches things differently no matter what they offer. Yes the big teams like MFS, Quest, Punishment, etc all teach every element. But they all teach it in a  very different way that inherintly will work better for some more than others. Take Nate and Sheldons gym for instance. Both have Grappling, Wrestling, Striking, and Conditioning. That is the basic formula needed to make a fighter. But the approach is totally different. depending on what the student needs/lacks and how they intake information will decide which gym would work for them. And if a gym works for you, and you get the basic four then that is about as complete as it gets.

This thread was getting too "testy".. I am going to take it upon myself to settle things down.

This is Sarah Ponce, and she is fighting this weekend in Denver at my ROF show (shameless plug).

Now what were we talking about again?!?!

45

5150... I can no longer remember damn thing after seeing that picture..... Does she need to borrow my hot tub while she is here? I'm all about helping out the fighters and stuff.....

 

ChadK is one of the best Turkish oil wrestlers in the country. Once he masters Once he master the "Front lift, tug throw" He will be promoted to Oily Balck Belt.

I Learned Turkish oil wrestling in Italy where we use Extra Virgin Olive Oil....

 

Again, Sven I'm available to help Ms. Ponce stretch if she needs me...

46

Sven -

dude -

please re-read my apology -

i was going to extreme length because of a troll (cameltoe) -

47

No troll here, just making a arguement for the school. sreiter, you seem to be the only one upset. It's all in fun. Whoo-Saw, Whoo-saw....

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ttt

49

Will

http://www.mma.tv/tuf/index.cfm?ac=ListMessages&PID=1&TID=831579&FID=1

50

Dear "Sreiter",

I see you apologized to Will Hendricks for making false comments about his tournament in the "Where to train in Denver" thread... However, you failed to apologize about telling obvious lies about my school...

You stated that you've "tooled tons of Grappler's Edge's best fighters"... You and I both know that the truth is you've never even competed against ANY of my top guys (period).

You say we (G.E.) are the only team that competes at the Pancrase USA tournaments? Well, here's this year's results: 01: Grappler's Edge 117 points 02: High Altitude Martial Arts 69 points 03: Easton's (Boulder/Tri-town) BJJ 33 points 04: Tool Shed 13 points 05: Gumm B.J.J./MMA 9 points 06: Colorado Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu 8 points 07: Mile High Gracie Academy, 8 points 08: Team Carvalho 7 points 09: R1 Wrestling 6 points 10: Stars, 5 points... Do you recognize any of those other teams? You know Amal Easton, Alberto Crane, Elliott Marshall, Nick Kline, Keith Wilson, Christian Carvalho have all competed (and won) the Pancrase USA tournament... I'd say they are all top quality grapplers. Do you think otherwise?

You said one of our "best boys" (Nobuo) left us and is now with COBJJ... Yes you're right, Nobuo does train at COBJJ, but he still trains with us just about every Saturday... Nobuo also represented both Grappler's Edge and COBJJ in the last Pancrase USA tournament (where he took second to Jess Zobeck from Grappler's Edge)... Did you know that?

As far as Seth Bregman is concerned... Yes Seth has been in Judo for about 20 years (I know his father fairly well). Seth was inducted into the Oklahoma Judo Association's Hall of Fame in 1988 (when he was a kid) as the outstanding competitor for his age group (then again in 1989, 1990, 1992, 1998 and 1999)... He's also a 2nd degree black belt, and you can check that out online. So yes, Seth should have competed in the advanced division at the Pancrase USA tournament, not the beginner's. The Pancrase USA rules specifically state that the beginning division is for competitors with less than 18 months "OF ANY GRAPPLING DISCIPLINE", the intermediate division is for Grapplers with less than 3 years experience, and the advanced division is for competitors with more than 3 years experience. Last time I checked, Judo was still considered a Grappling discipline, and 1988 was more than 3 years ago.

As far as this thread is concerned, I like what Andy Wang had to say (and btw Andy, you're always welcome at our school). Easton's BJJ is a quality school, so is HAMA (Marquardt's), so is COBJJ, and so is Grappler's Edge! We've been around for 11 years now, and we've done VERY WELL in competition. We've competed in just about every Grappling and MMA event there is (including UFC, PRIDE, ADCC, NCAA's, etc).

So, for those looking for quality schools in the Denver area, I consider Amal Easton and Nate Marquardt great competitors and coaches (and I also consider them friends of mine). So I would definitely recommend that you check out their schools. I don't know David Ruiz well enough to call him a friend, but I know he is a good instructor has a very good school as well. I'd also have to say that you'd be foolish not to check out Grappler's Edge...

So "Sreiter", I hope I've helped you out with some of your misconceptions... If not, I guess you can always stop by and "tool all of our best fighters" again. Right?

Thanks,

Sheldon Marr

Grappler's Edge

51

sheldon -

i have competed against your guys other then the ones who left you to train at co bjj -

naming 6 guys from other schools does not make your tourney "diverse"

how bout instead, you list the amount of competitors entered from each of the other schools (bte - i have no idea who Keith Wilson, Christian Carvalho is)

how bout you list the schools outsie the denver area the competed

as far as seth is concerned -

a) i didnt read the "rules of the tourney", so i dont know what beginner or advanced meant - i know if he entered a bjj or submission tourney he would be a beginner because judo is not subs - thats like saying a div 1 ncaa champ or olympic gold medalist should compete against bjj black belts in a bjj tourney - or that i should enter judo tournies in the brown belt div because i have a brown belt in bjj -

b) if the promoters had a problem with it, why didnt they stop him -

please educate me and list your students who competed in UFC, PRIDE, ADCC,

and tell me how they did in each (also remember, my statement was i wouldnt train there for my ground work, so i am more concerned with adcc, and the pan am's) - and also let me know if those people who competed (like nobo) also trained else where - i said you have good wrestlers, boxers and judo

there is a BIG difference in someone only training under you, and someone leaving you, training elsewhere, then doing well in submission/bjj tournies -

look, you're finally on the right path at least bringing in Ricardo Murgel but IMO, you have a way to go when it comes to submissions.

Do you really think i am the only one from denver who thought this???????

dont you think i asked around before i decided on a school when i moved there?

Sorry, if your feelings are hurt, but the common concensus is your school is lacking when t comes to submission work -

hell, you must know it yourself or you wouldnt have gone about fixing it with Ricardo -

purhaps after a few more years under Ricardo, i'd recommend your school for grappling as i have the highest respect for ricardo and his masterful knowledge and teaching ability for submissions/bjj

52

Sheldon Marr has a wonderful group of fighters.

Becky Levi speaks highly of the training facility and instructors.

one of these days I'd like to stop by and train at the facilities.

53

astro - thats what i'm saying

no - fedor? how much did he train there, that it a difference?

54

guys everybody needs to calm down. all of the schools have good qualities about them. we have our lineage with renzo gracie so of course we focus alot brazilian jiu jitsu. sheldon has more of a back ground in judo and wrestling so you can see that emphasis when they compete. if you want to know where to train go check out all of the schools because you should train where you feel the most comfortable not which team has the best comp record. that being said i feel we have the most to offer but everybody needs to make there own decision.

eliot

ps i was just trying to joke around in my last post but u guys are getting all mad at each other now. relax and go train.

55

Eliot,

Good post... Good luck this weekend, and please give my best to Amal, Nick, Finnie and the rest!

Steve,

We all know you don't compete, so we also know your posts (about beating my team members) were nothing but lies. I don't argue on forums with people that can't tell the truth (it doesn't make sense to). When Chad told me who you were (yesterday), I had to laugh... You compete, PLEASE!

56

I moved around a bunch and have the followng first hand experience to offer:

zinganobjj.com - Mauricio has a dynamic game and he is a great instructor. He has been a mma champ and won many tourney belths. His new place is HUGE (4000+sf) and will grow fast: full boxing ring, thai bag rack, 1800sf of mats, weights, etc. They offer wrestling, MT, and bjj (gi and no gi). Anthony is a slick state champ high school wrestler and a is very patient and solid teacher too. If the location, schedule and school goals are in line with your interests, you would be hard pressed to find a better place.

Coloradobjj.com - Dave is great instructor, VERY methodical. Oscar teaches the MT (very good instructor) I started with Dave years ago and similar to the above, if this works for you, it is a great option. Some great guys to train with too.

BTW - Dave and Mauricio started switching at each others academys every now and then again, so you can get a differnt approach, etc.

Nate's - Many don't give him enough credit for bjj. His wrestling is great, his bjj is slick and he hits like a truck. He is a good teacher too. Curtis teaches many of the classes and he is a really good and patient instructor too. Christian teaches the MT and is one of the best MT instuctors out there. He can fight (mma and kb) and teach very well. I haven't been there in a long time, but again, depending on your goals, this may be a good option.

GE - I never trained there, but have met Tom Y and he is an awesome KB instructor. He used to teach kb when Dave was still renting space from Bing.

Bang - I never really trained under him, but have trained with him briefly and he has been affiliated with a few places over time. After watching and training with him, it is easy to recognize that he is a good instructor.

I don't have any 1st hand experience with any of the others and others have already commented. Try them all and see what works for you.

57

Sheldon,

When healthy, I do compete, and have taken gold, silver, and bronze - other then the 2x we met, how would you know whether or not I compete in GI/No GI events?

my comments where based on guys i rolled with in class -

lets approach this a different way -

Ricardo comes in a few times a year to teach BJJ/Submissions (a very good thing and great teacher)

who is there teaching grappling, and in specific submissions/bjj when he's not there and what are their qualifications?

Wrestlers know how to take down and pin very well - it is a very different objective then fighting - sure, they might win a grappling match on points - just taking down and letting them back up over and over is enough to do to win on points -

judo players can throw you to the ground - GREAT players can even knock you out with that throw - bubt because judo is based around olympic type rules, sub's are very rarely taught and practiced, as is newaza -

So, who is the submissions coach, and what are his qualifications?

Again - my comments were very specific and limited to this area in particular -

lets talk about lieing (or at least misleading)

You go on and on about coaching guys who have won national contests - when the national title is for that pancrase tourny that for the most part only your guys enter -

thats like me putting on a tourney at my house claiming it is a national event, winning and proclaiming myself a national event winner -

shit, i've won actual prestigious events (the bjj pan americans) which actually have over 1000 competitors from all over the world by default - and i dont brag how i am a pan american champion -

I tapped the world champ in my division IN COMPITION and dont go around saying I'm world champ

WTF????

58

Steve,

This will probably be my last post to you, because (again) I see no reason to argue with someone who's not telling the truth... On the other hand, if you continue to tell blatent lies, I just may continue to expose you a little more (for the fun of it).

First you said "i tooled tons of your best grapplers". Then you said "i have competed against your guys...". Then you said "my comments where based on guys i rolled with in class" So which was it Steve? Did you "TOOL" tons of my best grapplers? Did you COMPETE against my guys? or did you "ROLL" with some of my guys in class? You know, I'm guessing it was probably "NONE OF THE ABOVE"!

Anyway, you're certainly entiltled to your opinion, and you don't have to like me or my school (and that's fine)... Actually, I'm sure you must have some skills yourself if David Ruiz gave you your brown belt. But I'd really apreciate it if you wouldn't tell lies on the forum by saying you've "tooled tons of my best guys" when we all know you've never even competed against any of them. What do you say, does that seem fair to you?

Astro,

To answer your question... No I haven't competed at all in the "post BJJ world". The U.S. Olympic Comittee banned me from Judo competition (and I had to leave the U.S. Olympic Judo Training Squad) in 1984 due to a medical problem (a broken neck).

But please understand I WASN"T criticizing Steve (or anyone else) for not competiing... I was exposing Steve for saying he'd "tooled tons of my best grapplers", when he'd never competed against any of them... That's all. You see I'm very proud of my students, and therefore I sometimes get a little protective of them as well. That's the reason I had my student (Camelcluch) post for me on this forum in the first place.

Personally, I think Denver has a lot of top schools, so everyone has some really great choices of where to train. I've told Amal that I feel both of our teams have really become a lot stronger over the years by competing against each other, and he agrees with me. Now Nathan has a tough team as well, and so does David and Brad... It's just getting better and better!

All the best,

Sheldon Marr

Grappler's Edge

59

Sheldon -

You can post whatever you like about me just for the fun of it - after all this place is FULL of the biggest shit talkers on the net. It's pretty much expected on here.

OK, you got me on "I tooled most of your best guys". The statement should have been I've tooled (in class sparring) a few guys who have trained at your school while they were ar some other school.

My statement about pancrase was pretty much on - the number of your guys competing vs. any other team is overwhelming. Most of the BJJ/submissions community stays away from the compition because the rules work against that game.

Look. I have nothing against you or your school. If someone was asking about a school that provided a great all-around program, great boxing, great judo, etc. I'd recommend they give you guys a serious looking into. My statements were from a very narrow perspective, and I've stated so on every occasions.

Purhaps you should have someone other then camel clutch post for you. All this, especially the "i tool his best guys" are from a diret result of his comments to me about i must be mentally challenged if i thought the bjj schools in the area taught ground fighting skills better G.E.

He brought up pancrase, so i brought to light pancrase's rules and it's limited scope, vs. other national tournies

Again, none of this would have transpired had it not been for camel clutch -

60

Steve, where do you get your information about the Pancrase tourney?  Have you ever attended?  This year we had competitors from California, Colorado, Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, New York, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Texas, Utah and Wyoming.  We even had individuals from 5 different countries. 

Take a look at the results and you will see that every BJJ school in the front range area had numerous competitors at our event. That includes your beloved CBJJ. It's true that G.E. had the biggest team, but, an overwhelming majority of competitors come from BJJ schools.

The scoring system for several years has been Abu Dhabi World Submission Wrestling Championship. Our goal is to have rules that allow all styles to compete, not just BJJ.  We are not a BJJ tournament and have never claimed that.

Additionally, the tournament has always been non-profit.  None of us make a dime.