Who here actually likes Laimon?

How could anyone like Mark Laimon? I am NOT talking about respecting whatever grappling skills he has, I'm talking about liking him as an individual.

To me it really annoys me what a hater he is towards the Gracies for primarily the perceived slight of Rorion not teaching him advanced sports moves when he was a white belt. He has gone on to show unbelievable disprespect to the Gracies in virtually ever interview I've seen with him. He has gone so far as to say that Rickson Gracie never won anything, won his sport jiu-jitsu matches when people didn't know jiu-jitsu, and would lose at Grappler's Quest.

He has also hated on judo, saying "that judo stuff" doesn't work (showing an astouding ignorance of the orgins of GJJ as well as the success of judo fighters like Karo Parysisan, Yoshida, Fedor, and Akiyama in MMA).

He announced that he would submit Ryron Gracie quickly, delayed the match for 2 hours while trying to argue about the rules with Rorrion, getting his way, still complaining about the Gracies in a taped interview after that, running from Ryron Gracie the entire match after almost getting submitted quickly with a leglock and triangle (if no one could pass guard for 2 minutes you could choose to go on your back or pass guard. Laimon chose "back" but really chose butterfly guard so there was separation between him and Ryron. When the referee said "go" Laimon sprinted backwards to his feet in a desperate attempt to stand up to avoid having to roll with Ryron on the ground - he did this 12 times I believe).

Laimon has also whined and complained and yelled in his annoying voice at virtually every tournament he's been to, shoved a copy of the rules in a referee's face, and when told to please calm down, pulled out his copy of the U.S. Constitution and made a long and annoying speech about free speech (which is also retarded because the 1st amendment does not apply in circumstances in which a private venue as opposed to the government is trying to limit your speech).

He has also lost almost every MMA fight he has cornered, yet continues to talk shit about fighters who put it on the line in MMA while he has never fought.

Honestly, maybe people see something I don't, but I don't see how anyone could like let alone train with the guy.

If you are a Laimon student, please identify yourself as such, and explain why you like what I perceive as a complete asshole.

wow, you've put a lot of time and thought into this

I wrote that in 5 mintues

i like his hot body.

I know Laimon, and while he may have an abraisive way about him. He speaks his mind and doesn't care about upsetting the BJJ "elite".

He is passionate about the sport, his students, and is constantly trying to learn new stuff. He is not intimidated by belts, nationality, or last names. Plus he's got a booming, Johnny Cash, voice that can cut right through a packed auditorium, straight into your tempanic membrane.


I dont agree with everything he says or does, but I like him a lot as a person. Ive known him for at least 7 years (maybe more), so Ive seen a different side than the people who have only seen him at tourneys. A lot of what he does is a sincere backlash against some very real fleecing and bad faith that occured when Marc first moved to L.A. to train.

Things are different now, so its difficult to empathize, but most of his complaints were valid and reactions like his helped circumstances to change for everyone.

That said, I am a huge fan of the Gracies, so I can see both sides of everything that went down. Neither side is blameless, imo.

I like Laimon. But I am biased because he showed me a lot of good technique:)

As for your comments about GQ it wasn't Laimon seeking any changes, so you should not blame hime for that one.

As for the constitutional argument, that does sound annoying. I don't know the precedents on this one, but if the tournament was held at a school that recieves state funding (and/or federal), then would the constitution not apply?

I am not his student, but after having taken a lesson from him, and having watched him teach his classes, my guess is that he students love training under him because:

  • he is a great teacher

  • he is totatlly dedicated to bettering his students

  • his love for the sport is infectious

  • He gets the most out of his students and has made

many ordinary guys champs.

  • His open door policy means many top guys come in to

train, and invariably end up helping the students

  • And he really is bad ass on the mats

That said his voice at tournaments is extremly loud and may cause damage to your hearing if you are in close proximity.

Kashk is correct (in both posts).

All sports need a character/rebel and at least he isn't as big of an a-hole as some of the gracies.

Posted on nhbgear forum
First, this is a complete misconception. Marc did not beat "them with their own rules". The rules Marc wanted were on the IGJJA web site as 30 minutes OR 12 points whichever came first. Rorion was under the impression that in his talks with Brian Cimmins the rules were total points after 30 minutes or a submission in that time. Neither side would budge and it looked like there would be no fight. At one time Ryron wanted the match to go to a submission and Marc refused. The final decision was total points after 20 minutes or submission in that time. At the end of 20 minutes Marc was ahead 7-2 so he won. Ryron was still breathing normal and Marc was winded. Hawk


I was there at the rules meeting. I reffed the match. Where were you? At the time the rules were talked about, Yes, Mark wanted the rules that were on the website because that's what he trained for. What rules are you saying he requested? Ryron had trained for a 30 minute fight and total points. Rorion was under the impression those were the rules as they had been when Ryron fought Cameron Earle. That was the mixup, nothing that Marc did or Rorion did. I am not skewing a thing. You are trying to make it look like Rorion tried to change the rules and that's not true. Were you at the meeting? At one point Ryron finally said to Marc that since Marc had said he would submit Ryron, they should fight to a submission and Marc refused. I got tired of the BS and went to the bathroom. A couple minutes later the rules were a 20 minute fight and total points. As ref, I was as fair as I could be to both sides. The heat I caught from Ryron's people was that Marc would jump up out of the guard to get Ryron on his feet. They felt this was running from the fight. I never felt that way. Any time you have rules & points and time limits the person in the lead will try to keep the lead & get the fight to their strengths which is what Marc did. He scored 5 points right off the bat and from then on fought to protect that lead. Marc's problem is he had mouthed off so much about he would submit Ryron and then he didn't even go for a submission made people that really weren't on either side look with more favor at Ryron since he had Marc in danger 2 or 3 times. It meant a lot that Marc was winded after 20 minutes because it meant Ryron and his people made a big mistake agreeing to 20 minutes. The rules that Ryron wanted were no time, no points to a submission. THOSE are the best rules for Ryron Gracie. Now, if Marc or anyone else ever beats Ryron under those rules then they will have beat him at his own rules. A 20 minute time limit and total points favored Marc more then Ryron. The reason the fight took place is because Helio told Ryron, Hey you're here to fight, get it set and fight. That's how the 20 minutes came about. It wasn't a bitter pill especially to Ryron since most of the fighters' there were more impressed with him then Marc. IMO, Marc won the fight fair & square and no one, especially me has tryed to revise what happen. I KNOW what happen. I had the best place in the house to see it and hear what happened before. Now, Jr. and Uly were there with Marc. There was me, Brian, Rorion, Rener, Ralek, Ryron, & Helio. Where were you because I don't recall anyone else? One thing further, this fight happened almost 2 years ago and the meeting before the fight was taped. Why that tape has not been made available I don't know, but its out there. I don't know who has it, but if you think I'm skewing history then find it and I'll do everything I can to get it on this forum for all to see and we'll let the forum decide who's skewing history, you or me. Hawk


FatBastard, you are wrong on every single point.

1) I like Marc as an individual, as do many. Mainly because he is not a two-faced coward. He says what he thinks. He does not engage in PC rhetoric. He is very opinionated. I can respect all of that. I would rather have a brutally honest opinionated person as a friend than someone who tells me what he thinks I want to hear. I like the fact that Marc doesn't care who he offends.

2)You know nothing about his history with the Gracies.

3)He doesn't 'hate' on Judo. In fact since my background is Judo he consistently encourages me to use it in competition. He points out when he thinks the opportunity is there for a throw, and he does not let referees get away with not awarding me points for using Judo.

Your judgement on his 'hate' comes from one off-color remark ONE TIME in one particular fight for one particular fighter. To contrast that he has NEVER told me not to use Judo, or that Judo doesn't work, and he has seen me use Judo throws on many opponents and continually encourages me to do so.

4) Your summary of the Ryron/Laimon match is so fucked I don't know where to begin.

First of all he AGREED to use THEIR rules for a grapplers quest match. Quite a concession if you ask me.

Second, the argument of the rules occurred when Rorion, the lawyer snake, tried to twist things around into a no time limit match, and then later to a submission only match - neither of which had been agreed to. Culminating in Rorion cussing at the promotor, Brian Cimmins.

Third, Marc didn't run away the whole match. He got the only takedown of the match. He didn't do that by running. He scored a guard pass. He didn't do that by running. He did escape two footlocks attempts. But is an escape running? Should he have simply waited in the footlock position until Ryron got tired? There was no triangle. And those retarded guard flip rules are the only points Ryron got. LOL. He got 1 point twice because the referee switched the guard position. Marc simply stood up. 12 times - not. LOL. Ryron had no takedown skills, nor could he keep Marc down. Nobody should have to apologize because the IGJJF rules suck.

You make it sound like Marc was simply running around the edge of the mat while Ryron chased him and time finally ran out. If you were actually there you know this is not the case. Marc scored the takedown. He got the guard pass. He escaped both of Ryrons sub attempts. He stood up inside his guard so he could get on top. End of story. Marc won.

Fourth, Marc IS very vocal at tournaments. It is not whining when you are forcing the referee to do thier job, or to remind them of missed points. That is called being a good coach. This is further illustrated by the results of his team and their impressive record of wins.

Fifth, I think it is idiotic to blame Marc for a fighter losing. He has been cornering guys in the UFC, Pride, and every other production for probably longer than you have been watching MMA. He has corned more wins than losses that is for sure. But Marc can't win the fight for anyone. Fighters do that for themselves and to blame Marc for their losses is ridiculous.

Now I will identify myself as a student of Laimon. I am a fairly recent student also. I use to be on a local rival team. Meaning I competed against his guys. So I have seen both sides.

Regardless of what anyone feels personally nobody can deny his success, his teams success, and his coaching ability. Face it - the guy is good. And as I said earlier that is reflected by his team's record. They win everything.

Why do I train with him? Because he is a great coach. He has a great team and environment. You get to roll with a ton of people. Everyone comes through there. All are welcome.

The questions I have for you - have you ever actually met and talked with Marc, or are your opinions based on hearsay? Have you ever trained with Marc or his team? Do you have any first hand experience with ANY of the stuff you are talking about...at all?


NO I don't like him. He acts like an ass and talks alot of shit!!!!!!!!!!

Bill Jones: we're going to agree to disaree on the Ryron-Laimon match since I think your description is too fucked to comment on as well.

Secondly, it's one thing to state your opinion which I agree is admirable, it's another thing to hate on everybody associated with the Gracie family and spread misinformation. What factual contentions that I made were wrong that you claim are "hearsay"? Did Laimon not make that comment about judo not working? I'm sorry he only said it once but that's enough for me. Is it an excuse now to only have said something once and not multiple times? No I have never met Laimon but how would that change what he said in public interviews? Can I not comment on what George Bush said on CNN if I haven't met him personally? LOL at your strange standards for commentary.

As far as him coaching people in Pride and the UFC longer than I have been watching MMA, I was watching since UFC 2 and was at UFC 3 and have the pictures to prove it. Who was he coaching at UFC 1?

He seems very disrespectful to me. I don't know him though. I'm looking forward to Serra putting him in check today though. Curious to how he'll reply

My description is fucked? At least my facts are right. Yours are wrong.

Need an example?

You just said that Marc hates on the Gracie family and everyone associated with them. That is absolutely and categorically FALSE. As in...totally wrong. Marc has the utmost respect for many Gracies. In particular I recently asked him about how he felt with Renzo, Royler, and Roger. He had nothing but good things to say about them. He has problems with SPECIFIC members of the Gracie family - and as has been explained ad nauseum - for good reason.

Dude. Your 'factual' information is based on hearsay. Your original post is chock full of exageration and inaccuracy. LOL @ sprinting away from Ryron. Good stuff. You should write fiction.

And finally you bring up this Judo comment. Read what I wrote again. One time, in one fight, with one particular fighter. And yet I give first hand evidence of him NOT bashing Judo. You will, of course, ignore this and continue your skewed perception and selective hearing, and most likely continual to bash on Marc every chance you get without ever having met or trained with him.

Bill Jones: he told the world that judo sucked and didn't work on TV, I'm sorry if you feel I should take your word for something you claim he told you in confidence when both of you were together in private.

The thing is Fredrico, I don't understand how "all the good things" people are saying about Laimon make up for all the mean-spirited things he says and does, and all the negativity he brings to grappling. So far I understand that he cares about his students and that he is nice to people who come to train. I just don't understand when people say he appears to be "an ass on TV" or Laimon's an "asshole" but I like him anyways.

Awwww shut your fat fucking face you hypocritical bastard. You are giving him crap for stating his opinion publically, and here you are spewing your hatefull shit all over the place. Take a look in the mirror.

Bob Jones: you are giving me crap for stating my opinion publically, yet respecting Laimon for it. Maybe you should look in the mirror.