D241 -
One of the reasons I picked my winners the way I did, was I was imagining the fighters in their prime.
Gerard Gardoue had a solid career and was a tough dude, but Pat Smith on his best day, I think beats Gordoue on his best day.
What do you consider Pat's best day? Just out of curiousity.
I think Hackney beats Smith, and maybe Gordeau. He was just tough and kept coming.
I think a lot of people forget about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIARm1NLPUo
sorry can't seem to embed it
CharlesLewis -Kimo CRUSHED Pat Smith in that fight. Smith staggering around with his brains scrambled trying to gain his composure was kind of scary.
I think a lot of people forget about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIARm1NLPUo
sorry can't seem to embed it
Kimo is massively under-respected, IMO.
That dude was not only a killer, but he fucking GAVE IT to Royce when Royce was OWNING people.
That Kimo is a bad motherfucker.
I'd of liked to have seen that Kimo of UFC III vs Igor of the same era or Tank.
Mezger beats Smith in the finale
Better than any ZUFFA UFC card
Jennum will always a mystery
He trained out of Robert Bussey's Warrior International School (the same school that produced Jeremy Horn) and was one of the head instructors there teaching Ninjutsu focusing on hand to hand combat. So the guy is no punk, thats for sure.
And losing to MMA legends like Ruas & Tank is nothing to hang your head about. But Steve never seemed in the Tank fight and the Ruas fight (Vale Tudo) was even worse. He was a pretty big guy at 5'11, 210 lbs but never fought like a big man. He's a cop now, full time & was recently in the paper:
On December 17, 2007, while he was off-duty, an assailant tried to hit Jennum over the head with a bottle in a parking lot to rob him. He fought off the attacker and eventually backed off after an accomplice drew a knife. The three suspects took off in a getaway vehicle, but he found the suspects' vehicle a short time later and notified his fellow officers of the whereabouts. Police later arrested the three suspects.
Great thread! So hard to pick a winner here.
Since mezger fought at UFC 4 why not just sub him in for one of the other fighters that were in the tournament.
Mezger vs a tired Kimo or Remco would have been interesting.
He never had the best Cardio, but i think that he would have had better cardio than the rest of the guys in this. Oh, and skill, too.
LOL, I am no fan of Smith to be sure... partially because he gets way overhyped for a guy who crushed smaller cans and quit in every hard fight he ever had, partially because of the rape charge, and partially because I think the guy was just a d-bag.
It's a pet peeve.
ill say Guy Mezger, dude was solid.
UGCTT_zackthewop - Since mezger fought at UFC 4 why not just sub him in for one of the other fighters that were in the tournament.
Mezger's running away with this. He wasn't a MMA fighter at the time. I don't see him any different then the rest of the field. Traditional martial artist who was hard as fuck.
The fact that he would go on to become a solid fighter should be countered by the fact that he was the only rookie in the field. IMO.
I don't think there was another guy in UFC 4 (aside from Severn) who would be competitive with these guys. Melton Bowan? Joe Son? Although Macias vs Weit could have been cool.
CharlesLewis -
I think a lot of people forget about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIARm1NLPUo
sorry can't seem to embed it
Thank you for posting that.
This really was a great thread, lots of great debates.
However, Pat Smith didn't have to worry about a grappler as his bracket was filled with stand up fighters.
Kimo is a ground fighter which is why he won in that bout.
Again, the match up I'm least confident in was Smith/Hackney, but in terms of how he advances, he didn't have to face any ground fighters.
If it's a photo of Pat after he got his ass kicked in that elevator, maybe.
i say kimo or remco. kimo would win just by being bigger and stronger than everyone. if remco gets thru him hed probably win just because he would have(at least in theory) better grappling skills over the others that he would exploit.
CLINTK9 -MrColdCock -UGCTT_zackthewop - Since mezger fought at UFC 4 why not just sub him in for one of the other fighters that were in the tournament.Mezger's running away with this. He wasn't a MMA fighter at the time. I don't see him any different then the rest of the field. Traditional martial artist who was hard as fuck.
The fact that he would go on to become a solid fighter should be countered by the fact that he was the only rookie in the field. IMO.
I don't think there was another guy in UFC 4 (aside from Severn) who would be competitive with these guys. Melton Bowan? Joe Son? Although Macias vs Weit could have been cool.
I thinks its too many remembering Mezger from ufc13 not ufc4. NO WAY he wins this tourney at that time.
That was 3 years before 1994. I wouldn't put too much substance in considering Guy Mezger a "rookie" 3 years after displaying that type of stand up skill.
TheBearStare - i say kimo or remco. kimo would win just by being bigger and stronger than everyone. if remco gets thru him hed probably win just because he would have(at least in theory) better grappling skills over the others that he would exploit.
JOESONDO - As a great man once said "If you're coming on, COME ON!" Of course Howard wins, how could it be any other way?