you have a valid point but I think a case can still be made for Barnett in the top 10. BTW you are joking about Ogawa right? and Mark Hunt in the top 10? those are 2 of the stupidest rankings I ever saw (no offense)
Please share your top 10, Brazil. Let's compare.
cheif,
You have Hunt and Ogawa in your top 10, and think Barnett hasn't done as much as them. You are clearly 1 of 3 things.... a troll, a Barnett hater, or an idiot.
Do not try to match wits with the Brazilian because you will lose terribly.
rude, what are you still doing here? I thought you left.
What's your top 10, buddy?
Das Weasel,
You have Tom Erikson at #8. Here's your sign...
The thing is, my research is a little too extensive for you. I don't live and die by what the UFC and Pride puts on PPV.
The recent history of guys like Travis Wiuff, Ibragim Magomedov, Jeff Monson, Kevin Jordan, and Sergei Kharitonov absolutley embarrasses the fights that Ogawa and Hunt have accumulated lately.
I just wanted to try and save you from getting shown-up big time from the Brazialian, (someone who knows what he's talking about).
chief: sorry if I came off disrespectful us hardcore Vitor fans have to stick together. I just think Ogawa and Hunt in the top 10 is truly ludicrous. I would not put them in a top 20 and maybe not in a top 30.
You wanted my list. Here it is:
1 Fedor Emelianenko (Judo/Sambo): 20-1.
Current PRIDE Heavyweight Champion, PRIDE Heavyweight Grand Prix ‘04 Champion, RINGS Absolute & Heavyweight Champion.
2 Rodrigo “Minotauro” Nogueira (Gracie Jiu jitsu): 24-3-1.
ex-PRIDE Interim Heavyweight Champion, ex-PRIDE Heavyweight Champion, WEF 8 Heavyweight Champion, RINGS “King of Kings” ‘01 32-man tournament Champion
& ‘99 Brasileiro Champion.
3 Mirko “Cro Cop” Filopovic (Kickboxing): 14-2-2.
4 Frank Mir (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu): 8-1.
Current UFC Heavyweight Champion..
5 Andre Arlovski (Sambo/Kickboxing): 6-3 (8-3).
Current UFC Heavyweight #1 Contender.
6 Tim Sylvia (Miletich Fighting System): 19-1.
ex-UFC Heavyweight Champion, EC 47 Heavyweight tournament Champion & SuperBrawl 24 Heavyweight 16-man tournament Champion.
7 Josh “the Baby-faced Assassin” (AMC Pankration): 15-2. Current 2x Open-Weight “King of Pancrase”, UFC 36 Heavyweight Champion & SuperBrawl 13 Heavyweight Champion.
8 Pedro “the Rock” Rizzo (Ruas Vale tudo): 14-5.
3x UFC Heavyweight #1 Contender, WVC 2 Champion, WVC 3 “Superfight” Champion & 4x Brazilian Muay thai Champion.
9 Ricco Rodriguez (Machado Jiu jitsu): 15-4.
UFC 39 Heavyweight Champion, 2x KOTC Heavyweight Champion, Extreme Cage 2 4-man tourney Champion & Abu Dhabi World Submission Wrestling ‘98 Heavyweight Champion.
10 Heath “the Destroyer” Herring a.k.a “the Texas Crazy Horse” (Golden Glory): 25-10 (40*+-10).
WVC 9 Champion & PRIDE-17 Heavyweight #1 Contender.
11 Alexander Emelianenko (Judo/Sambo): 5-1.
12 Kazyuki Fujita (Wrestling): 12-4.
13 Sergei Kharitonov (Russian Top Team): 9-1.
Yalta’s Brilliant 2000 tournament Champion & Tournament of Real Men 8 Champion.
14 Igor “Ice Cold” Vovchanchin (Kickboxing/Sambo): 57-8-1.
Ukrainian NRF Champion, Ukrainian Octagon Champion, IFC 1 Champion, Warrior’s Honor ‘96 Champion, MSG ‘96 Champion, CIS Cup ‘97 Champion, Cup of Stars ‘97 Champion, Absolute Russian Open Cup 3 Champion, AFC 3 Champion, WVC 5 Champion, WVC 6&7 “Superfight” Champion, Ukrainian InterPride ‘99 Champion
& PRIDE Grand Prix 16-man tournament finalist.
15 Justin Eilers (Miletich MMA): 9-3-1.
16 Travis “Diesel” Wiuff (Lion’s Lair): 34-4.
XKK Super Heavyweight Champion.
17 Ibragim Magomedov (Red Devil Sport Club): 11-2 (25-2).
M-1 MFC Heavyweight GP Champion & 2H2H Heavyweight 8-man tournament Champion.
18 Ausserio Silva (Muay thai): 10-3.
19 Paul “the Executioner” Buentello (Kickboxing):
17-8.
Current KOTC Heavyweight Champion.
20 Ron “H20 Man” Waterman (Wrestling): 12-3-2.
Bas Rutten Invitational Heavyweight tournament Champion.
as I said, I take your point about Barnett. if he had been a little less active, I can see dropping him from HW ranking consideration completely. But even though he hasn't beaten a lot of top HWs, he has been fighting and winning the last couple years. He was a UFC HW Champion who beat a lot of good fighters and has only lost twice ever. Ambriz, Schilt, Kondo, Takahashi they are not top HWs but they are tough guys. And we all know what he did to Randy Couture (who was a HW fighter at the time albeit a smaller one).
lol, ok dude.
You have no clue.
(edit), my post is NOT directed at Brazilian
BTW thanks for the compliment rude22
my rankings are not perfect. any rankings are going to have some degree of subjectivity. but I do put a LOT of thought into them, as rude22 mentioned I do keep up with what is going on with fighters outside of UFC and PRIDE, I update my lists constantly, and despite my name (being a fan of some Brazilian fighters) I truly believe my lists are free of bias.
Most importantly, I try to give equal weight to OVERALL CAREER as well as WHAT HAVE YOU DONE LATELY. I think many, many rankings focus on only one or the other. Both are critical in determining accurate current rankings.
I try to limit my ranking lists a top 20. but then if a division goes deeper, I like to include a list of "Contenders" who are knocking at the door and could break in any time with a good one win or two (or losses from fighters ranked above them)
Here are my "HW Contenders":
Jeff “the Snowman” Monson (American Top Team): 11-5.
Current CWFC Heavyweight Champion.
Tengiz Tedoradze (Greco-Roman Wrestling): 13-3.
ex-CWFC Heavyweight Champion.
John “the Bull” Marsh (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu):
7-4 (12-4).
Ben Rothwell (Freestyle Academy): 13-4.
Current USMMA Heavyweight Champion.
Kerry “Meat Truck” Schall (Submission fighting):
19-7.
Antoine Jaoude (Ruas Vale Tudo): 3-1.
Hirotaka Yokoi (RINGS): 9-2.
Brazil, thanks for putting up your list. It's a good comprehensive list, but I have some issues with it...
Obviously I disagree about Barnett being up there.
I wouldn't put Pedro Rizzo up there so high. He's definately top 20, even top 15. I feel he's been a little too inactive lately, and in his last 4 fights he's 2-2.
Herring...his competition (besides Nog) hasn't exactly been stellar, but it's iffy. But he's definatly above Ricco, Barnett, and Rizzo.
I certainly don't think Ricco has any business being on the list.
you are right Rizzo has been very inactive. It's been over a year since he fought and I can see that as a valid criteria for eliminating a fighter from current rankings.
that said though, the man has wins over 2 of the last 4 UFC HW Champs (Barnett & Ricco), the current UFC #1 HW Contender (Arlovski), and he gave a 3rd UFC HW Champ what he himself calls the toughest fight of his life (Randy Couture) a fight many fighters and fans feel he won.
Not to mention the highlight reel of KO's he produced thru his career, winning only 2 of his 14 wins by decision. A HW picture that totally discounts such a man is kind of a distorted one don't you think?
I can also see the argument against Ricco if you consider only recent results he hasn't posted a big win in quite a while and has lost his last 3 big fights. But one of those "losses", many (including myself reluctantly) feel he beat #2 ranked HW Nogueira, albeit in boring fashion. Certainly that loss should not have hurt his stock.
Ricco was a legit UFC Champion, he has had a stellar career and I think is way way too easily discounted for losing to Sylvia and Rizzo (2 GREAT HW fighters).
Again like I said, it all goes back to taking OVERALL CAREER into consideration, not just "what have you done for me lately?"
Anyway, let's all keep this discussion respectful and not personal. Again I apologize if I offended you, I just STRONGLY strongly disagree with Ogawa and Hunt in a top 10 list
One thing we can agree on is in a couple weeks or so Vitor is gonna kick Tito's ass!
Overall career is very important, but I think recent accomlishments have a little more pull when it comes to the current top-10.
Why do you have Arlovski ranked above Sylvia?
I think Ricco's stock has been hurt alot lately. He came in way out of shape for Nog. I feel Nog won that fight. I feel like Ricco, after getting KO'd by Sylvia, kinda gave up on his training. His only win in the past two years was against an unknown tomato can. I think overall Ricco has had a good career. I think he can make a comeback to the rankings easily.
Brazilian, I was never offended by you. People on this forum say much worse things to me all the time ;)
And yes, Vitor is gonna kick Tito's ass.
OK Brazilian, you have me re-thinking my views on Ogawa's spot on the top-10 list. Maybe I'll move him down a few spots.
I have very mixed feelings about Arlovski. I actually think he is somewhat over-rated by many. As I've said before, a fighter wins a few fights in a row in impressive fashion and suddenly he is invincible. Arlovski knocked out 3 fighters in a row in the UFC and now many are hailing him as some unbeatable juggernaut. This despite the fact that he sports a rather unspectacular overall MMA record of 6-3.
But the fact is, he did win his last 3 UFC fights while Sylvia lost his last UFC fight. Arlovski is the rightful UFC #1 HW Contender, if he fights Sylvia for an interim HW belt, it is only because Mir is injured. In the UFC's organizational rankings, certainly there is no dispute, Arlovski is above Sylvia. And it is my personal opinion, these organizational rankings should parallel overall rankings as closely as possible.
I would certainly not ridicule anyone who disagrees with this nor would I argue with anyone who ranked Sylvia over Arlovski. It is a tricky (and again highly subjective) situation.
I'm glad you listened to my input chief. I also adjust my rankings sometimes also based on other people's opinions, that is why I periodically post my lists--to hear other views and update my lists accordingly. For sure not every response you get from our forum brothers is insightful and well thought-out but some are.
To the chief,
I re-read some of my posts, and I just want to appologize for some of my choices of words.
I don't agree with a lot of what you've said, and to be honest, I'm still not even sure you were being serious with some of your rationale, but the name calling on my part was not called for.
You have your opinion, I have mine. I guess we'll leave it at that. I was just trying to bring to light some of the things Josh has done that would put him above the likes of Hunt, Ogawa, etc.
Something tells me you just simply don't like Josh, and took this thread as an opportunity to bash him. I wouldn't consider myself a big Barnett fan, but I do recognize his accomplishments and anxiously wait to see what he does in the future.
This forum is about different opinions, so I'll leave it at that. We'll just agree to disagree.
IMHO, Josh should still be ranked in the top 5 as I strongly feel that the Mirko fight did not affect his standing because I don't count that one as a submission victory for Mirko.
People argue that Josh should not be ranked in the top 10 due to inactivity. In the last two years, Barnett is 5-1 (or IMHO 5-0 plus the injury) against respectable competition (Schilt, Takahashi, Ambriz, Rooze and Kondo), whereas Arlovski for example has fought two times during that span. Barnett's only loss in his career (not counting the Mirko match) was to Rizzo and untill the KO he did pretty good in the match in my opinion. Plus his record also includes beating Couture, Hoffman, Marsh, McGee.
I think that both the MMAranks (which are improving with each iteration round), and the Brazilian's rankings are absolutely great and when I vote on MMAranks, I tend to agree pretty much with the Brazilian's rankings.
In my opinion, Ricco, Herring, Rizzo and Josh still belong in the top ten top with the talented new breed and Mirko, Arlovski and Mir. I guess I just personally value a fighter's career more than his recent achievements. In my book Frank would still beat most of today's 185 lbrs and Sakuraba is still #1 (in his own special weight category where Silva is too big and Royler too small :).
Do people expect MMA fighters to fight too frequently? I mean Josh hadn't fought in a while, but wouldn't that be a normal time period for a boxer? Didn't Lennox Lewis fight like once a year during his later years??
The Brazilian,
I would like to hear your reasons for picking Vitor over Tito. I am having trouble choosing as both fighters never seem to "show-up" when the stakes are high.
When all eyes are on them they never appear willing to put it on the line and seem more interested in NOT LOSING than in WINNING. I see this fight being a big dissapointment.
Do you see Vitor finishing him or decisioning him? Break it down for me. (I'm not being a smart ass, I'm interested in your view.)
Peace,
JUICE.