Yeah i seriously doubt that we will see machida respond more aggressively. I think that we saw the majority of Machida style in that fight. from the sweeps to the oddly balanced strikes to the brutal knees.
Considering that a few of his flurries in the fight ended with him catching a hard hit and circling out, i doubt he wants to play the aggressive game with Shogun, a known aggressor. i dont think his style is nearly as effective when he isnt able to measure timing and distance. he seems to be a reactionary fighter that reacts well to people being aggressive. i think shogun presented a great balance of offensive and defensive attacks along with patience.
Machida might be wise to try a takedown of his own. Perhaps mix up what has been a really consistent stragety in most all of his fights.
not that everyone has the skill set of Shogum to capitalize on it but it you bet it will be apart of machidas competitors game plans in the future.
I really dont see him changing it up. kinda like i dont see rampage checking leg kicks.
who knows. im excited though.
and still pullin for shogun.
Shogun will mos def make some changes: I think it will be in the takedown part. If Machida wants to be sucesful in blocking the low kick hes got to make his stance more narrow and fighting in a new stance will get of balance and easier to takedown. So he will be taken down or pounded in the leg again. BELIVE IT !
Diego stole my name - "Not sure Machida needs to change his stance. He needs to defend the leg kicks better thats for sure, perhaps stance change is one possiblity. What about moving to the right instead of into the kicks for starters? Thats not karate or MT strategy, just common sense, no?"
Just for fun. Try to emulate his stance and move around while trying to check kicks. You will find it very hard to do smoothly. The weight distribution doesnt really allow you to. In order to be able to defend the kicks properly he would need to use a thai stance that has his weight on the back leg with his frontleg light to check kicks. But that would be basically engaging in a thaiboxing match with Shogun
Circling right would take away some of the sting of the kicks but not help him defend or get away from them
Machida has shown he can throw more than one punch at the time. He had some flurries against Shogun and he stayed in front of Rashad and threw everything he had.
If Shogun fought exactly like last time i think Machida basically chasing him with punches is his best shot on the feet
Ok, man, i have no training in striking but get what you're saying before emulating the situation myself with the stance.. Machida also got winged by that K1 in one of his early MMA matches on his inside lead leg but he took the guy down when he needed.
Note to others: though not quite the same either, before people say "Karate" stances just arent ready for leg kicks, leg kicking in Kyokushin is bread and butter though Machida is not a Kyokushin guy but he's been doing MMA for a while, he trains also with Anderson, it shouldnt be that foreign to him
I cant recall but how did Shogun score most of his leg kicks? In Machida's south paw stance and was it to the back leg?
Yeah, I woulda been more happy with Machida if he tried to open up a bit more with punch combos. People show the gif of R3 when he did and though it shows Shogun had the best punch of the exchange, Machida looked to be more of the offensive guy throughout it so he is def capable of exchanging with Shogun. With Rashad, i think, as Elvis said again, he only seems to throw hooks or combos when going for the kill and with Rashad, he didnt have much trouble landing the straight left first and rocking him with it. Against Shogun, the left never seemed to catch Shogun good enough for a follow up imo in Machida's mind but i think he could have followed on those more.
Machida did have his timing and range on to counter Shogun when he did throw the kick only Shogun seemed to land harder when they exchanged the punch and kick blow for blow in those single strikes exchanges. But I dont think Machida has to change his stance to possibly land one of those punches better (not like he didnt land them at all) or maybe change up the angle a bit to slip Shogun's blocking.
Again, unlike others, I think the rematch is very compelling for one of the most strategically anticipated rematches in recent memory.
I'm so upset about Shogun having to win again to get the belt, because what he did was catch Machida off guard, which I don't think he can do twice. Sadly Machida will most likely win the rematch and retain Shogun's belt.
I think Machida's best bet is to focus on tightening up his defense rather than trying to change up his offense.
He knows Shogun is going to go after his legs, he knows that he will get nailed with a kick if he circles to his left when he disengages, and he knows Shogun will counter his charges with hard kicks to the body. These are all things he can work on neutralizing in training.
And if he finds answers for these things Shogun is going to have a much tougher time. Machida still has the better hands. If Shogun can't do effective damage with his kicks he's going to have to press forward more with punches and this is just exactly what Machida wants.
I don't think Machida needs to add more hooks or such. I actually think trying to go all Roy Jones would be a bad idea. His reflexes are so tuned for what he does, that adding more variety would tend to make him more ordinary rather than more versatile. In the few times we've seen him stand in the pocket and exchange without first hurting his opponent (against Shogun, and against Rashad in the first round), he does okay, but he doesn't have any particular advantage there.
In the rematch, if Machida wins (honestly wins), I would expect it will be because he found a way to defend the kicks better, forcing Shogun to punch with him, and then doing what he has always done.
Crazy Zimmerman - Shogun came in with the right game plan. He studied the crap out of Machida and it paid off for him. I think that blueprint will be used by other fighters now, but who can execute it as good as Shogun can?I doubt this blueprint would be very effective for most who try this on Lyoto. There aren't very many LHWs in the UFC who have leg kicks as quick and powerful as Shogun's or the reflexes to defend Machida's counters like Mauricio did.
MMA Authority Mag - I'm so upset about Shogun having to win again to get the belt, because what he did was catch Machida off guard, which I don't think he can do twice. Sadly Machida will most likely win the rematch and retain Shogun's belt.
Even if Shogun shouldnt won and should be holding the belt, it was close enough for Machida to get a rematch so if Shogun would likely have to face Machida again anyhow.
Machida cannot defend against Shogun's style. Nobody can.
TheVileOne - Machida cannot defend against Shogun's style. Nobody can.
Which style?
The style he brought against Machida was a debut
The standup style he brought against Nakamura was losing
I love Shogun, i think he won, he's the most rounded LHW but curious what you mean.
BuddyRevell -Crazy Zimmerman - Shogun came in with the right game plan. He studied the crap out of Machida and it paid off for him. I think that blueprint will be used by other fighters now, but who can execute it as good as Shogun can?I doubt this blueprint would be very effective for most who try this on Lyoto. There aren't very many LHWs in the UFC who have leg kicks as quick and powerful as Shogun's or the reflexes to defend Machida's counters like Mauricio did.
But Machida and karate was apparently rendered completely useless from there on after Sat.
tryptophan - I think Machida's best bet is to focus on tightening up his defense rather than trying to change up his offense.
He knows Shogun is going to go after his legs, he knows that he will get nailed with a kick if he circles to his left when he disengages, and he knows Shogun will counter his charges with hard kicks to the body. These are all things he can work on neutralizing in training.
And if he finds answers for these things Shogun is going to have a much tougher time. Machida still has the better hands. If Shogun can't do effective damage with his kicks he's going to have to press forward more with punches and this is just exactly what Machida wants.
I don't think Machida needs to add more hooks or such. I actually think trying to go all Roy Jones would be a bad idea. His reflexes are so tuned for what he does, that adding more variety would tend to make him more ordinary rather than more versatile. In the few times we've seen him stand in the pocket and exchange without first hurting his opponent (against Shogun, and against Rashad in the first round), he does okay, but he doesn't have any particular advantage there.
In the rematch, if Machida wins (honestly wins), I would expect it will be because he found a way to defend the kicks better, forcing Shogun to punch with him, and then doing what he has always done.
More good points.
I have to pat my back for creating one of the best threads in recent memory
In my opinion, Shogun needs to be even less aggressive. Not the whole fight, but at points in the fight. Machida coming forward leaves himself open a lot more than he does going backwards, and it seems to be a good chance to actually finish the fight for Shogun.
Other than relying a slight bit more on his defense, I don't believe Shogun should change his game plan.
For Machida, I'd like to see him change his foot work up a little. Not his stance, but his footwork. He was circling into kicks and when he was attacking I don't believe that he had his feet positioned in a solid fashion. This could be because of the punishment he took, or just how Shogun forced him to come in. I've only watched the fight once, so can't really say what it looked like more definitively.
Also, Shogun's closest attempt at finishing was during Machida's offense. I don't know if Machida can train it very well this quickly, but his head movement when on offense is rather ineffectual. He relies on overwhelming his opponent and landing first. I don't see that working with Shogun consistently. Staying at the same range for 2 different sets of hooks thrown by Shogun ended with a massive right hook in that exchange in the third.
If Machida is going to keep his head stationary, he needs to not allow Shogun to gauge the range like happened there. I'm surprised he didn't drop or do a fish dance from the right hook Shogun threw. That's where Machida has the biggest chance to lose the fight before decision in my opinion but also probably the biggest chance to win it. Watch any of his other flurries, and you'll see that he's open in them as well, it's just no one else was able to survive and counter effectively.
I wouldn't mind seeing a near mirror of that fight again. I just don't want the infuriating decision.