i have another thread where we're discussing the linear title...
MMA WORLD TITLE HISTORY (Linear)
Combat Sport Fan -Combat Sport Fan - Your Rankings are a talent contest at least at 155 since you dont give credit to american mma and give a linear ranking at 155 when fights were contested at 160 when there was a 155 pound champion at the time
Hmmm, it's debatable.
Nothing against American LW's but, after Penn left the division, Zuffa pretty much made the LW's non-existant in American MMA...at least to the casual fan.
But Gomi had dominated the LW's overseas...including KO'ing Jens and the other top LW's at the time.
It may have been at 160 but few, if any, 155lb'ers even fight at 155 (come fight time). But he is still a "natural" LW, and has proven that by staying at 155.
Diaz never did and probably never will.
Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan - lol at aoki being a champion. The lightweight division should not be tracked linear too much confusion.
Edgar would took aoki he would pull a melendez for 3 rounds and finish him in the 4th unless aoki quits from the beating before that. buttscooting is not mma
It's not a talent contest.
he is not the best lightweight in the world. Especially when Melendez outclassed him all over the ring. He doesnt fight top competition only fights in japan where they give him tailored rules. Edgar is the best in the world. Maynard and melendez are tied for 2. Melendez will be in the UFC soon so we will see how does. hes a good fighter been following him for years.
Id like to see the linear route of the lightweight division of you could entertain me. I like all your other rankings
It's at the site...
https://sites.google.com/site/mixedmartialartsrankings/home/mma-world-title-history-linear
I agree. Aoki is not "the best"...but...if they fought in Japan there might be a different outcome. We shall see...hopefully.
Though i also think Melendez is top 3 one of the best LW's. After Melendez fights Aoki again, i would love to see him fight Eddie (or Aoki, who already sub'd Alvarez). Then that winner fight the winner of Benson/Pettis -vs- Maynard/Edgar.
Now THAT'S A FRIGGIN LW TOURNEY IF EVER I SAW ONE!!!
only if aoki doesnt have pants, no buttscooting he has to work for a takedown.
japanese mma has fallen behind unfortunately.
I have Maynard winning it all
I think Benson might surprise some people. He's very tricky & slick.
At any rate, it's gonna be awesome...esp. if they can cross-fight with the UFC LW's!
Hey, no offense at calling you a noob, k?
But if you didn't know that Gomi was already fighting at that weight (before Pride), then you are still a noob. But you're not a troll. Which is very cool!
i know gomi had fought at 155...didnt BJ pen Tool his ass at that weight?
But the fact is you are talking linear title at 155 pounds which was not contested in pride but was contested in the UFC.
but i agree benson is slick and will get there soon.
Yes but, Gomi also wracked-up a dozen wins at 155-160, while BJ went up to MW and even to over 200lbs (against Machida).
Gomi stayed and dominated at LW, when nobody else was (at that time).
Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan -Combat Sport Fan - Your Rankings are a talent contest at least at 155 since you dont give credit to american mma and give a linear ranking at 155 when fights were contested at 160 when there was a 155 pound champion at the time
Hmmm, it's debatable.
Nothing against American LW's but, after Penn left the division, Zuffa pretty much made the LW's non-existant in American MMA...at least to the casual fan.
But Gomi had dominated the LW's overseas...including KO'ing Jens and the other top LW's at the time.
It may have been at 160 but few, if any, 155lb'ers even fight at 155 (come fight time). But he is still a "natural" LW, and has proven that by staying at 155.
Diaz never did and probably never will.
diaz won at the weight you are counting so therefore he is the last 160 pound champ.by slick gogo..BJ eventually won the 155 title and now its frankie. Natural isnt the discussion. its the weight they fought at....in the talent and regular rankings then you can talk about talent. but not linear.
yea they ended the division but brought it back in a big way at the weight we are talking about
So then the title would have gone to Noons, then to...?
Gomi is better and makes more sense.
The fact that Diaz never fought at 155 is very pertinent here.
One thing that establishes a top fighter/contender at a certain weight class is the fact that they've actually established themselves AT THAT WEIGHT. Diaz never did.
This has been discussed, and by several MMA pundits and peers. No one else has ever come up with a better scenario/solution.
Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan - lol at aoki being a champion. The lightweight division should not be tracked linear too much confusion.
Edgar would took aoki he would pull a melendez for 3 rounds and finish him in the 4th unless aoki quits from the beating before that. buttscooting is not mma
It's not a talent contest.
he is not the best lightweight in the world. Especially when Melendez outclassed him all over the ring. He doesnt fight top competition only fights in japan where they give him tailored rules. Edgar is the best in the world. Maynard and melendez are tied for 2. Melendez will be in the UFC soon so we will see how does. hes a good fighter been following him for years.
Id like to see the linear route of the lightweight division of you could entertain me. I like all your other rankings
It's at the site...
https://sites.google.com/site/mixedmartialartsrankings/home/mma-world-title-history-linear
I agree. Aoki is not "the best"...but...if they fought in Japan there might be a different outcome. We shall see...hopefully.
Though i also think Melendez is top 3 one of the best LW's. After Melendez fights Aoki again, i would love to see him fight Eddie (or Aoki, who already sub'd Alvarez). Then that winner fight the winner of Benson/Pettis -vs- Maynard/Edgar.
Now THAT'S A FRIGGIN LW TOURNEY IF EVER I SAW ONE!!!
only if aoki doesnt have pants, no buttscooting he has to work for a takedown.
japanese mma has fallen behind unfortunately.
I have Maynard winning it all
I think Benson might surprise some people. He's very tricky & slick.
At any rate, it's gonna be awesome...esp. if they can cross-fight with the UFC LW's!
Hey, no offense at calling you a noob, k?
But if you didn't know that Gomi was already fighting at that weight (before Pride), then you are still a noob. But you're not a troll. Which is very cool!
i know gomi had fought at 155...didnt BJ pen Tool his ass at that weight?
But the fact is you are talking linear title at 155 pounds which was not contested in pride but was contested in the UFC.
but i agree benson is slick and will get there soon.
Yes but, Gomi also wracked-up a dozen wins at 155-160, while BJ went up to MW and even to over 200lbs (against Machida).
Gomi stayed and dominated at LW, when nobody else was (at that time).
noone is doubting gomi was great but linear rankings he never fought at the weight discussed when you name his title run eventually landing in a shell of a champion in aoki.
Not sure i would refer to Aoki as "a shell of a champion". He's always dangerous and Japanese fighters have always done badly when they have to fly over half the earth and then fight shortly thereafter. Let Melendez dominate him...in Japan. Then we'll talk about how much of "a shell" he is.
Anything can happen in MMA.
Hardly anyone thought Penn was gonna lose to Edgar. But i was saying that if anyone had the style to frustrate and beat him, it was Edgar. He delivered....twice!
Talk is cheap. That's why i don't base my rankings on popularity.
Let's see who-beats-who and then we'll have the best fighters on top!
Besides, Diaz win was overturned. Did he whoop Gomi's @$$? Shurr'nuff! But the fact remains that Diaz never fought at 155.
On the other side of the coin...
When Ludwig beat Pulver, it WAS at 155. But when Penn beat Ludwig it was at 170. So there was no title change.
So likewise, since Diaz never fought at 155, and the fight was at 160, AND, it was overturned.
Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma - The fact that Diaz never fought at 155 is very pertinent here.
One thing that establishes a top fighter/contender at a certain weight class is the fact that they've actually established themselves AT THAT WEIGHT. Diaz never did.
This has been discussed, and by several MMA pundits and peers. No one else has ever come up with a better scenario/solution.
2 linear champs then. The current weight is 155 therefore its frankie...but if you want to give homage to pride and gomis run then have Aoki as the decendent of gomis run...but at 155 edgar is linear champ
There is one linear champ...and it is Aoki...for now.
Melendez is at #1 because he was beating the top LW's before Edgar even came onto the scene, and before BJ had returned to 155. Also, most of the top "LW's" in the UFC, at that time, were former WW's and MW's.
Do i think Edgar is the best LW in the world? Yes, i do. He beat the best. But that's based on talent and skill.
To be the #1 World Contender, you have to beat the guys already at the top. B Penn was not there. He was talent-wise...but he was not beating the guys who had already established dominance at 155.
Most people do not understand how rankings really work. They just base them on talent/popularity.
That's not rankings.
Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan - lol at aoki being a champion. The lightweight division should not be tracked linear too much confusion.
Edgar would took aoki he would pull a melendez for 3 rounds and finish him in the 4th unless aoki quits from the beating before that. buttscooting is not mma
It's not a talent contest.
he is not the best lightweight in the world. Especially when Melendez outclassed him all over the ring. He doesnt fight top competition only fights in japan where they give him tailored rules. Edgar is the best in the world. Maynard and melendez are tied for 2. Melendez will be in the UFC soon so we will see how does. hes a good fighter been following him for years.
Id like to see the linear route of the lightweight division of you could entertain me. I like all your other rankings
It's at the site...
https://sites.google.com/site/mixedmartialartsrankings/home/mma-world-title-history-linear
I agree. Aoki is not "the best"...but...if they fought in Japan there might be a different outcome. We shall see...hopefully.
Though i also think Melendez is top 3 one of the best LW's. After Melendez fights Aoki again, i would love to see him fight Eddie (or Aoki, who already sub'd Alvarez). Then that winner fight the winner of Benson/Pettis -vs- Maynard/Edgar.
Now THAT'S A FRIGGIN LW TOURNEY IF EVER I SAW ONE!!!
only if aoki doesnt have pants, no buttscooting he has to work for a takedown.
japanese mma has fallen behind unfortunately.
I have Maynard winning it all
I think Benson might surprise some people. He's very tricky & slick.
At any rate, it's gonna be awesome...esp. if they can cross-fight with the UFC LW's!
Hey, no offense at calling you a noob, k?
But if you didn't know that Gomi was already fighting at that weight (before Pride), then you are still a noob. But you're not a troll. Which is very cool!
i know gomi had fought at 155...didnt BJ pen Tool his ass at that weight?
But the fact is you are talking linear title at 155 pounds which was not contested in pride but was contested in the UFC.
but i agree benson is slick and will get there soon.
Yes but, Gomi also wracked-up a dozen wins at 155-160, while BJ went up to MW and even to over 200lbs (against Machida).
Gomi stayed and dominated at LW, when nobody else was (at that time).
noone is doubting gomi was great but linear rankings he never fought at the weight discussed when you name his title run eventually landing in a shell of a champion in aoki.
Not sure i would refer to Aoki as "a shell of a champion". He's always dangerous and Japanese fighters have always done badly when they have to fly over half the earth and then fight shortly thereafter. Let Melendez dominate him...in Japan. Then we'll talk about how much of "a shell" he is.
Anything can happen in MMA.
Hardly anyone thought Penn was gonna lose to Edgar. But i was saying that if anyone had the style to frustrate and beat him, it was Edgar. He delivered....twice!
Talk is cheap. That's why i don't base my rankings on popularity.
Let's see who-beats-who and then we'll have the best fighters on top!
Besides, Diaz win was overturned. Did he whoop Gomi's @$$? Shurr'nuff! But the fact remains that Diaz never fought at 155.
On the other side of the coin...
When Ludwig beat Pulver, it WAS at 155. But when Penn beat Ludwig it was at 170. So there was no title change.
So likewise, since Diaz never fought at 155, and the fight was at 160, AND, it was overturned.
SUCH A DOUBLE STANDARD FOR GOMI. HE NEVER HELD A TITLE AT 155! it doesnt matter if he can fight there he was never a champion there which is what you are saying he was. according to your blog its the linear title at 155 which gomi never held therefore it layed vacant until sherk.
Its linear not that gomi was the dominant champ around that time cause he was BUT NOT AT 155 IN A LINEAR STANDARD!
You just liked gomi...we all did but he wasnt a 155 pound champ.
Actually quite the opposite is true. As a fighter i think Gomi was awfully "lucky". As a person i think he was an arrogant punk.
If you notice in the photo, with me and Gomi, Sato and Uyematsu, Gomi put his fist under my face. He was very young then and was acting like a kid. I just ignored him. Sakurai took that photo and he was acting like he didn't want to be there at all. He wasn't fighting and neither was Gomi. They were all there just to support Sato and represent Shooto.
But i have never "liked" Gomi.
There is no bias in my choices. I have never had a personal preferrence for Japanese fighters. I think many are very talented but, they have to prove it to be at the top of the list.
I have never done it any other way.
I base my choices on facts.
Look at all the fighters Gomi fought, at 155. Notice how many were top LW's (at the time). Nearly all of them.
Now look at all the LW's Diaz fought at 155. I can count them on one hand. How many were top 155lber's?
Only 2 - Gomi and Inoue.
He fought one future LW champ, and he lost to him.
He has fought mostly at 170. His fight with Gomi was at 160. He fought a total of 4 times at 160. His record was 3-1 (2-1 1 NC, officially).
He lost to Noons. Noons left MMA to be a boxer...and now nobody knows what he's gonna do.
He never fight at 155. Neither did Diaz.
It makes absolutely no sense to say that Diaz became the new linear LW champ.
Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma -Combat Sport Fan -shanoknowsmma - The fact that Diaz never fought at 155 is very pertinent here.
One thing that establishes a top fighter/contender at a certain weight class is the fact that they've actually established themselves AT THAT WEIGHT. Diaz never did.
This has been discussed, and by several MMA pundits and peers. No one else has ever come up with a better scenario/solution.
2 linear champs then. The current weight is 155 therefore its frankie...but if you want to give homage to pride and gomis run then have Aoki as the decendent of gomis run...but at 155 edgar is linear champ
There is one linear champ...and it is Aoki...for now.
Melendez is at #1 because he was beating the top LW's before Edgar even came onto the scene, and before BJ had returned to 155. Also, most of the top "LW's" in the UFC, at that time, were former WW's and MW's.
Do i think Edgar is the best LW in the world? Yes, i do. He beat the best. But that's based on talent and skill.
To be the #1 World Contender, you have to beat the guys already at the top. B Penn was not there. He was talent-wise...but he was not beating the guys who had already established dominance at 155.
Most people do not understand how rankings really work. They just base them on talent/popularity.
That's not rankings.
HAHAHA dude we agree on everything but on how linear works. 155 is the linear title and gomi never held a title at that weight so it doesnt matter. Edgar is the linear champ at 155 pounds. Gomi never held a title at 155
You don't have to hold an official promotional title to hold the linear title.
shanoknowsmma - Also need fight photos of the following fighters...
Masayoshi Kato 3-0-1
114lbs 5'6" (Cobra Kai MMA Dojo)
Teppei Masuda 5-3-1
114-123lbs 5'4" (Cobra Kai MMA Dojo)
Hiroyuki Kondo 3-2-1
114lbs (Jiu-Jitsu Brother)
Yoshitaka Aki 2-2
114lbs 5'4" (Andreios)
Keisuke Kurata 5-8-1
114-123lbs 5'6" (ALIVE Makkari)
Atsushi Mochizuki 2-4
114lbs 5'4" (Paraestra Sapporo)
Masanobu Mori 2-2-2
113lbs 5'4" (Nascer do Sol)
Tomohiko Yoshida 6-7-1
114lbs 5'3" (G-Free)
Hayato "Cat" Sato 2-6-1
114-124lbs 5'7" (Paraestra Matsudo)
Hiroaki Takezawa 2-5
114lbs 5'5" (RJW G2)
Kenya Kato 2-5-1
114lbs 5'5" (ALIVE)
Yu Shi 2-0
1??lbs (Motion Academy)
Sean Hall 3-1
125lbs (???)
John Moraga 6-0
125lbs 5'6" (Arizona Combat Sports)
Phil "Billy" Harris (England) 19-9 1 NC
125lbs (???)
Marco Beltran (Mexico?) 4-0
135lbs (???)
Bill Boland 5-0
135lbs (Franco Behring)
Yusaku Nakamura 3-0
135lbs 5'5" (Style)
Thanks for any help!
Also need fight pics of the following...
Alexandre Pinheiro (Brazil) 6-3
143lbs (Viktor Gym) vid
Kyle Reyes (Guam) 2-0
145lbs (Guahan Top Team)
Thanks for all the pics!
Thanks for the pics!
Not for the life of me could i ever imagine having such a loser life that i'd have to stoop to trolling on other people's threads...to whine like a bitch...so i could tell them they whine like a bitch. lol
You @$$tards are always good for a laugh!
Combat Sport Fan - gomi never fought under the pride title at 155 pounds...therefore he never defended or won that title. it was re created in the UFC therefore frankie is champ
That's a very good argument...especially since Penn had already whooped Gomi's @$$ years earlier.
Problem with it is, two things...namely, Gomi strung-up a ton of wins against name LW's, after that loss to Penn.
And the UFC title started out with a former WW fighting a MW. Neither fighter with any wins against top LW's..and Sherk (who became the champ), had no previous fights at 155. Florian only had two.
So then Sherk lost the title by being stripped, and Penn fights Stevenson for the vacant title. Stevenson was also a former WW and Penn had only recently started fighting at 155 again...his only recent LW fight being against a natural FW in Jens Pulver. That was Penn's only LW fight since he beat Gomi, nearly 4 years previous.
So, although there's an argument for it, it's a weak, debatable and controversial one...either way you look at it...pro-Gomi/Aoki or pro-Penn/Edgar.
But when you look at everything, and take into proper perspective, my alternative makes better sense.
Actually shano, I was yelling at you earlier, but I respect the discussion you had with Combat Sports Fan.
Surely you can understand how answering like that versus ignoring legit questions while telling everyone they're morons and don't understand rankings will garner polar opposite reactions.
Years ago, I made an honest attempt to engage you in discussion, but you were a total asshole. I address others in the exact fashion they address me.
La-Who,
Sa-Her!
vote cast is this puder?
Combat Sport Fan - agree to disagree....only on one lightweight. I thik you should acknowledge current title holders as well on your page. Like have Linear Champ, UFC Champ, Dream Champ, and Strikeforce Champ.
But i wont budge on the Gomi title lineage even though he beat alot of top lightweights it was in a defunct division of 160
I acknowledge all the major title holders...on every Rankings page.
Not sure what you're looking at...?
Combat Sport Fan - agree to disagree....only on one lightweight. I thik you should acknowledge current title holders as well on your page. Like have Linear Champ, UFC Champ, Dream Champ, and Strikeforce Champ.
But i wont budge on the Gomi title lineage even though he beat alot of top lightweights it was in a defunct division of 160
Just as an FYI, every single creditable rankings source in MMA included Pride's 160 division along with the global 155-pound rankings.
They have universally been looked at in the same class, and to my knowledge, no one created separate rankings for them.
Also, the UFC completely abandoned the 155-pound class and everything shifted to Shooto and Pride, so the baseline and historical lineage cannot possibly stem from the UFC.
Uncle Justice -Combat Sport Fan - agree to disagree....only on one lightweight. I thik you should acknowledge current title holders as well on your page. Like have Linear Champ, UFC Champ, Dream Champ, and Strikeforce Champ.
But i wont budge on the Gomi title lineage even though he beat alot of top lightweights it was in a defunct division of 160
Just as an FYI, every single creditable rankings source in MMA included Pride's 160 division along with the global 155-pound rankings.
They have universally been looked at in the same class, and to my knowledge, no one created separate rankings for them.
Also, the UFC completely abandoned the 155-pound class and everything shifted to Shooto and Pride, so the baseline and historical lineage cannot possibly stem from the UFC.
Thank you.