Would they have been champions without steroids ?

Underground
41

"btw do the lance armstrong epo stuff cure mma fighters cardio problems?"

Good question. I would think it would, and also I think it's only detectable by blood test, so I would expect lots of MMA guys to be on it -- but they still seem to have terrible cardio for the most part.

42

those bitter people that feel they were cheted by nature will always seek a place to express thier cowardice. ufc is the perfect vehicle

43

Coleman and Kerr were just roided out wrestlers...i hate to sound like im taking away from their career but what did they do that was so amazing?Coleman never improved or evolved in his career, he was the same fighter..Kerr was the same..

44

DaemonDragon - Wand is clearly not juicing now, he's completely washed up with a weakened chin, and he can still beat top 10 fighters like Bisping and Stann. What makes you think in his prime he couldn't have been a top fighter? He was considered one of the best prospects even when he was in the UFC before going to Pride, and I really doubt he was juicing then.

Kerr was pretty much all roids+pain pills...there really wasn't much more to him than that. So he definitely would not have been a top fighter without those things. He absolutely needed both, the roids to get big+roid rage and the pain pills to give him confidence and be a psychological crutch. Dude was terrified to fight.

Coleman...not sure. He was very athletic with a monster double anyway. But it's arguable what he would have been without roids. He wasn't really a top fighter for a prolonged length of time anyway, and was always one-dimensional.

What makes you think Vanderlei isn't juicing now ? The way he moves ? His physique ? Those things don't mean he isn't juicing.


There will be a difference in performance when you can juice through training and then cycle off leading up to the fight....fighters doing this may actually show up on fight night with LOW test.....Meanwhile in PRIDE Vanderlei didn't have to worry about testing and could basically come into the PIDE ring w/ a needle hanging out of his ass....ALSO, he may have been running different steroids, some that do not clear so fast, and at much higher levels overall.


As for the way he moves...again, could be a result of cycling off vs showing up ON....as well as age (BIG factor), injuries accumalating, and FOUR HORRIFIC back to back KO losses.


Not sure why you would think he was clean when he was in the UFC back in the day either...NO testing and guy just came straight from Brazilian Vale Tudo where juicing and greasing up is the norm.

45

UHHHHHHH When has Wandy ever failed a drug test!??? VTFD you clown.

46

armbarseverywhere - 
SKARHEAD - 
armbarseverywhere - There was this badass Russian guy.. Fedor.

I'm not convinced Fedor wasn't juicing in his RINGS and PRIDE days when he was jacked. he's Russian. They're notorious juicers from Olympics to combat sports.


Fedor certainly looked much more deflated and skinny fat later in his career.

You know you can't judge that shit on appearance itself. Don't go taking clean fighters under your wing under the 'guise of "we don't know that they didn't do steroids."

None of us can really prove anything . We're just talking here amongst friends....and I'm simply stating my opinion. This is a forum right ?

47
Tiresias - 
SKARHEAD -
Tiresias - 

You are asking people with sentimental attachment to certain athletes/sport history if they would prefer if things had been different; but if things had been different, then we would have sentimental attachments to different athletes/history, and so people would be greatly offended in rejecting the idea of having had some steroid users replace them.


Who would have been in their place as champions if the juiced legends weren't there ?


The guys that they beat ? Errrr, that's lame.


The juiced fighters were bigger, stronger, faster, more explosive, more confident, and more agressive...The fights and spectacle that we saw would NOT have been reproduced under juice free conditions. MMA history would look alot more like some lame, flat, slower TUF for TV style fights. The shit we've seen is superhuman and quite special by human standards.


So you take all the superhuiman legends off the board and replace them w/ the sliower, weaker, less explosive, agressive fighters that got beaten by the legends...yeah, that sounds lame and a well step below in entertainment quality.


Like being forced to watch stop motion black and white King Kong movies after seeing Jurrasic park...cool, but lame in comparison to the high level shit we've seen.


We would love the sport because we wouldn't know any better...but with everything toned down a serious notch we probably wouldn't have loved it as much seeing as it would have been simply less interesting and entertaining...Many of us would have moved onto something else.


It's not just sentimental attatchments to fighters...it's the quality of the action. Overall, it cannot be better viewing/entertainment quality than the enhanced version we've seen.

Possibly, but I am not so sure. I don't think roidedness makes a huge difference in the overall entertainment-value of fights. Although if it helps fighters not gas then it does, cuz watching gassed fighters lurching and wheezing at each other is not entertaining. Phone Post


bull....roiding causes fighters to gas if they don't train conditioning correctly and work out like a body builder just putting on inflated muscle (baroni, Coleman, etc)



When done right the fighter becomes a buzzsaw. Vanderlei being a prime example....Shit, look at Royces punches vs Sakuraba in their 1st fight....and years later when he was older, but not clean. BIG differenc, noticed right away and this was before he got popped.


And when they train right on the stuff the juice certainly makes a difference in terms of added power, explosiveness, speed, etc....The fight is physical. The gear enhances all this...and that makes for a more exciting spectacle...just like ALL pro sports.

48

bhealthy - those bitter people that feel they were cheted by nature will always seek a place to express thier cowardice. ufc is the perfect vehicle

LOl @ UFC fighters being bitter.



Yeah...Vanderlei and the rest are sooooo bitter

49

wandyfan007 - UHHHHHHH When has Wandy ever failed a drug test!??? VTFD you clown.

You sound like all the Overeem fans riiiiight before....







lol

50

SKARHEAD - 
wandyfan007 - UHHHHHHH When has Wandy ever failed a drug test!??? VTFD you clown.

You sound like all the Overeem fans riiiiight before....







lol

He's had how many fights and how many of those did he fail...






















You sound like a total idiot making stupid accusations, like a 10 year old girl trying to start some gossip, LOL

51

wandyfan007 - 
SKARHEAD - 
wandyfan007 - UHHHHHHH When has Wandy ever failed a drug test!??? VTFD you clown.

You sound like all the Overeem fans riiiiight before....







lol

He's had how many fights and how many of those did he fail...






















You sound like a total idiot making stupid accusations, like a 10 year old girl trying to start some gossip, LOL

Don't be a turd. This thread isn't sabout accusations...just a discussion among fans and other than you (lol) you will be hard pressed to find anyone here that actually believes Vanderlei was clean thrioughout his career.



Your screen name says it all. get off the man's nuts. he juiced AND even greased upo at least once...So what ? we're all fans anyway. Grow up and stop crying son.



Don't lie...you're in highschool aren't you ?

52
SKARHEAD -
wandyfan007 - 
SKARHEAD - 
wandyfan007 - UHHHHHHH When has Wandy ever failed a drug test!??? VTFD you clown.

You sound like all the Overeem fans riiiiight before....







lol

He's had how many fights and how many of those did he fail...






















You sound like a total idiot making stupid accusations, like a 10 year old girl trying to start some gossip, LOL

Don't be a turd. This thread isn't sabout accusations...just a discussion among fans and other than you (lol) you will be hard pressed to find anyone here that actually believes Vanderlei was clean thrioughout his career.



Your screen name says it all. get off the man's nuts. he juiced AND even greased upo at least once...So what ? we're all fans anyway. Grow up and stop crying son.



Don't lie...you're in highschool aren't you ?

Lol! "How many drug test did he fail?" As many were administered in the Pride FC, that's how many. Phone Post

53

lol


Coleman and Baroni passed those tests too I'm sure

54

Not in High school, lol. PROVE he was on steroids! I hate how people try to say this guy was on steroid just because of the way he looks.... It's so dumb. You're the one that needs to grow up. Trying to falsely accuse of fighters of being steroid users.... SMH

55
SKARHEAD - lol


Coleman and Baroni passed those tests too I'm sure

And Ryan Gracie and Arona they were squeaky clean too. Phone Post

56

wandyfan007 - Not in High school, lol. PROVE he was on steroids! I hate how people try to say this guy was on steroid just because of the way he looks.... It's so dumb. You're the one that needs to grow up. Trying to falsely accuse of fighters of being steroid users.... SMH

You sound like a delusional Overeem fan...and a complete N00B to this sport and it's history.

57

SKARHEAD - What makes you think Vanderlei isn't juicing now ? The way he moves ? His physique ? Those things don't mean he isn't juicing.

He has to go pass US AC testing now.

If you accuse him of juicing, you have to literally accuse every single fighter of juicing. The fact he has never failed a US drug test means there is zero basis to suspect him.

Especially when you consider the significant weight loss he's experienced since Pride. Much of that is probably just old age, but a large chunk is probably that he was likely on the sauce in Pride, and isn't any more.

It really is plain idiotic to accuse the current version of Wand of juicing.
Not sure why you would think he was clean when he was in the UFC back in the day either...NO testing and guy just came straight from Brazilian Vale Tudo where juicing and greasing up is the norm.

Because he jacked up 6kgs between the Tito and Hendo fights according to Bas, pretty much all pure muscle. The gains in his strength were also easily noticeable. If Wand were already juicing pre-Pride, such gains should not have been possible so quickly. He would have already experienced his juice gains, like 19 year old Vitor.

In the UFC original Wand was a very smallish LHW. If he was juicing already he wouldn't have experienced the massive growth he did in Pride. He went from sub-200 to over 230 pounds vs. Cro Cop, I believe. With a ridiculously jacked physique.

Pride is the only era of Wand's career where it looks like there is a high chance of him on gear. But now, washed up even without gear he is competitive for the most part against much younger opponents, so it is likely Wand would have been a top 10 LHW at the least without gear in his prime, more like top 5.

Especially since all his top Pride opponents were also likely on the sauce. So if you take the sauce out of the equation, Wand would still have had a good chance to be top dog in Pride. Or maybe 2nd to Rampage, though Rampage was inconsistent.

58

This thread is an example of their tarnished rep, mixed with their lesser success in the ufc.

The question will always be whether they could have dominated like that in the ufc while they were clean.......or cleaner lol Phone Post

59


As long as I can go on believing that The Ultimate Warrior was clean, then I'm good.

60

FingerorMoon - 
As long as I can go on believing that The Ultimate Warrior was clean, then I'm good.

well played!