too lazy to read the whole post.
i would suspect one of two things. A. not just anyone can start teaching mma. (or can they?). i would assume it requires some type of credentials, at least to cover yourself from an insurance standpoint.
B. probably the biggest reason: most people that train in martial arts want to believe they are capable of defending themselves without going through the intensity that is required by bjj or boxing/ muay thai. therefore, the instructers offer what the clients want, in order to keep their enrollment up.
sorry if this has already been said...
Adam LaClair, that was a very good post, and I think much of what I do in my MMA class is moving in the same direction as your program. Nowhereman - You are correct that I do take some traditional techniques and add more realistic training to them - I don't study jeet kune do, so I am only guessing, but I believe we use a lot of their principles on teaching techniques that are alive rather than things like 2 and 3 step sparring.
I could get flamed for this, but one of the reasons we are using this format is that it is just so hard for people to achieve rank in BJJ. I have been doing BJJ for 10 years now, practice everyday and I still have at least a few years to go until black belt. I used to think it was cool that my blue belt girls in class could beat any TMA black belt that walked into the gym but now I am thinking poeple want to be able to get rank so i put this curriculum together. Also when people walk into the school they see a bunch of white belts and they don't realize how good we actually are and so they sign up at the local karate center. Some TMA schools have been starting to implement my curriculum into their training and their students are loving it. I also continue to study BJJ and I have a separate class with separate belt ranks for that program.
If anyone wants to view my curriculum you can see most of it at www.thirdheaven.com I also have most of it available on DVD.
Justin
"I could get flamed for this, but one of the reasons we are using this format is that it is just so hard for people to achieve rank in BJJ."
Very interesting point; thanks for your honesty.
Just how "traditional" is the belt system? I heard it started in the 20th century, and mimics the way veteran judoka would end up with blackened, dirty belts after years of training.
TH
Hackett,Jigoro Kano came up with the original colored belt system. Each belt was darker than the previous - yellow, orange, green, three grades of brown, and 12 grades of black (yes, 12! Although no one has ever gone beyond 10th to my knowledge).Okinawan Kara-te had 3 colored belts - white, dirty (brown), and REALLY dirty (black).I agree with JustinM; Having white belts that whoop ass on local black belts is cool, but doesn't get people that know nothing about the arts to sign up with you. The average person just looks at the rank of the head instructor! "Oh - a 5th degree MASTER Black Belt in TKD, or a purple belt in BJJ. I want little Johnny to have the best, so I'll sign him up with the MASTER."I am actually glad I have my other ranks. Justin, I encourage you STRONLY to get that JJJ black belt. It WILL give you credibility. I've signed up students just because my 4th Dan was close to the local "Master's" 5th Dan in TKD, but I could also offer all these other things that he can't - he "specializes" in just one art. :) I really pimp the hell out of it when running ads, flyers, or t-shirts, as well.Street Karate
Kenpo Karate
Combat Jujitsu
Brazilian Jiu-jitsu
Submission Wrestling
Personal Defense Readiness
Full Contact Mixed Martial Arts
Head Instructor Adam LaClair:
4th Dan Karate, 4th Dan Jujitsu, Blue Belt Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, Certified Personal Defense Readiness Instructor, Certified Grappling Instructorversus5th Dan Associate Level Master, Taekwondo, certified by World Taekwondo FederationWho would YOU rather train with?? :)AdamP.S. Oh - and EVERY one of my students whoop hell out of the local TKD black belts by THEIR rules. Something about better timing, distancing, and combinations, it seems. :) I don't let my white belts spar with them anymore, though. No need to embarass them TOO badly. :)
Justin, just curious as to what your students have/will have learned by the black belt level in your MMA curriculum. Do you parallel a TMA rank structure? How many belts? Looked on your site, but couldn't see anything except a curriculum video.
The rank system I use is much tougher than most TMAs, but not as strict as BJJ. White belt, 6 colored belts, and Black. Very well rounded fighters, though.
~ Adam
Adam,
that was a great post.
You are at a stage where I want to be in a few years. Scarily close to my goals actually: this year coming I want to get on Roy Harris's apprentice grappling instructor course and either 2004 or 2005 I will want to do Tony Blauer's course(s) - I already have almost all of his videos.
Justin "www.thirdheaven.com", does not work, did you mistype it? I'm very interested in what you are doing, I have been evolving to a similiar mindset. Can I shoot you an email and ask a few questions?
STFU!! We only care about Royce/Yoshida right now!! Fuck...
This thread is very cool and I am excited to be talking about something other than Yoshida vs Royce! bsktrap my site should work www.thirdheaven.com there are 2 places to see the curriculem one is on the home page it says something like Belt Testing January 18th click here for curriculem and the other section is on the user area. bsktrap you are welcome to email me at justin@thirdheaven.com anytime or even call me toll free at 877-342-8708. Also my rank system is much tougher than most TMAs just like Adams. Unlike BJJ where you have white-blue I have White, Yellow, OIrange, Green and then blue so people can test and set more goals for themselves. When you look at my curriculem on paper it looks pretty much like BJJ with Muay Thai but really there is a lot of JJJ self defense techniques and for degrees on black belts we have weapons forms and traditional JJJ forms. Because it is a curriculem that I made up I have never really known what to do about giving my self degrees on the black belts. My current black belt is falling a part so what I did is I am putting together a commitee of my top students that are either ranked as black belt or will be testing soon for black. Then they are going to all together decide my Belt rank. I know that sounds a little crazy but that was the only way I could think to do that. Also Assualt&battery you make a real good point and I think for most cases you are correct. But there are some traditional martial arts that can be changed to work better so that would not be watering them down but only improving on them.
Justin
Judtin, having your top students rank you for your own system looks like the only option you got. Sounds good to me.
JustinM,
according to tradition (japanese, anyway), as the founder, you are ABOVE the rank system. You are the Shinan, or originator, and you AND your first born son are typically not bound or under the rank system. You give rank in YOUR system as you see fit, and you simply are the head of the system. I would just wear a plain black and tell people that I am an instructor. When you are asked "what is your rank" you respond with "i wrote the textbook...I am above the ranking system".
Also...most schools followed something akin to this system:
beyond the brown belt is as follows:
Okuiri(first level)-means "entrance to secrets"
Moku Roku (second level)-"cataloge"
Menkyo (teacher's license)-"Master teacher"
Kaiden or Menkyo Kaiden (Everything Learned)-means you've learned everything in the system.
Okuiri is 1-2 dan. Moku Roku is 3-5 dan. Menkyo is 6-8 dan. Kaiden is 9-10 dan.
You could just award yourself a Menkyo...and be done with it.
Hth,
Ronnie
hey guys...that interview above with mits yamashita is on bjj.org....in the interviews section all the way at the bottom.
It is an anwesome int.
ronnie
Cool my first born son is on the way :) Entry Team I just wear a plain black belt then and consier my self a Menkyo? I am interested in learning more about how this works. It seems weird to just give myself rank but I dont really know how elese to do it for this. Tyhen how owuld one become Kaiden level?
Thanks for the good advice!
Justin
wait a second. are you guys saying anyone can just open a school, develop a curriculum and promote their own style? there has to be more to it than that.
pocotouro, isn't that what the Gracie's did? Jigoro Kano as well.
I just wouldn't want to see all these homemade styles popping up all over, but people have been doing it for years.
In Justins' case, I think he is definately competent enough to back up what he's doing.
Thanks glock4life - pocotouro you are 100% correct and I kind of thought I was going to get flamed real bad for even mentioning all of this on a public forum. I am very happy that everyone seems so willing to help out. The struggle that I am having is I have been practicing the martial arts my whole life and I have really devoted everything to this study. The curriculum that I am now using is real good and I have spent many nights up all night just re writing this curriculum so it is perfect. I have been working on it for about 10 years now. For awhile we had like 4 different styles being taught at my school and some students would be blue belt in BJJ and yellow belt in Kung Fu and green belt in JJJ it was a big mess. Now we only have 2 my MMA curriculum that I consider Third Heaven Martial Arts and Pedro Sauer BJJ curriculum. Someday I would really like to only have the one curriculum for MMA but I won't make that decision until I receive my black belt in BJJ and that is a long time from now.
Justin
do you have any complications with getting insurance? it would just seem to me that in order to open a gym andteach a martial art, there would be some sort of law requiring proof of certification. is this not so? are you at all concerned that you could find yourself sued or otherwise in trouble with the law? not trying to bag on you, but i'm just curious.
I have black belts in several different martial arts including instructor degrees in Japanese Jujutsu,Kick Boxing, Hung Gar Kung Fu, and Tae Kwon Do. I have the certificates and proof of instructor rank in those styles. Also Myself along with Henry Matamoros are the Wisconsin Brazilian Jiujitsu reps for the Pedro Sauer BJJ team. My current insurance never asked for anything like that - they just wanted to know how many people I had training and then I pay them a set amount - they dont cover Muay Thai classes but they will cover BJJ and MMA probobly becuase they just dont know what it is :)
Justin
Justin,
Though at a level quite below yours (!) I have found that nothing I do quite gives me exactly what I want, and that in reality if I train/teach everything that I consider important, in the way I think works, then in reality (like you) I have created pretty much a new martial art.
I think that after over a decade of training, plus reasonably high dan ranks in a couple of arts plus cross training in more, that certain skilled people are more than capable of creating 'their' system. (I don't consider myself at that level). I would look at something like Vee Arnis Jitsu or Chu-Fen-Do as archetypal examples.
In reality, with all that experience and knowlege, those lucky few are already practicing a system unique to themselves. And one that is likely far superior to McDojo TMAs.
I personally have no problem with skilled people creating their own systems. An friend (and instructor) of mine created a system of 'combat judo/ju-jitsu' after 20-odd years and several black belts.
Regarding certification, you could do it your proposed way, though I would feel that you should not be graded more than one rank above your current highest rank at this stage.
My instructor friend linked up with an all-styles association which graded him after he demonstrated his system. It would be better for you do seek one of these associations out and get affiliated - looks a lot better to be affiliated with some International Association of XXXXXX, and have your rank certified with them.
Good luck!
ttt for a way out of this Royce/Yoshida morass