If the goal posts are being changed from best wrestler in mma to best grappler, you have to take into account guys like Maia and Dos Anjos. As with the Olympics, Askren competed in one ADCC and went 1-1.
ADCC or sub grappling is as different from mma as gi is to no gi, maybe even more.
Khabib has the best mma grappling style imo overall but Askren is good and I think it’s better than Khabib’s in the wrestling Dept. Better than Romero’s wrestling too for mma. All of his wrestling for mma, not just takedowns. His work on the ground also. Askren wrestling on the ground is brutal wit the safety rules in the sport of wrestling taken out.
Again, it will be a great fight.
No gi sub grappling is mma with no punches. It's the only way to prepare for mma, Def not worlds apart.
No gi has a lot of positions like sitting up guard which would get you kneed in the chest or punched in the face and others too. It’s similar but different.
Sub-grappling is a way to prepare for mma but it’s not the only way. A much better way is to grapple with mma rules.
The game changes in mma. A lot of common guards in no gi don’t work in mma.
Even playing from from inside the guard is different. The guy on bottom is not looking to sweep or submit his primary goal is usually to standup so you have to effectively pin the man from inside the guard and do damage as you work to pass. In sub grappling playing from the top is a lot different.
Americans consider domestic university sports to be the highest level of athletic competition but this hype is ridiculous. Yoel Romero for example holds six Olympic and world championship medals. Askren competed in one Olympics, where he was 1-1.
I agree that MMA wrestling is different from sport wrestling. While GSP never competed in wrestling, he put wrestled US school champs like Trigg, Hughes and Fitch in the Cage. Askren taking down some Cambodian kids in MMA who never even training in wrestling before only qualifies him as the best wrestler in MMA in south-east Asia.
A lot of athletes who have competed in both the olympics and the ncaa championship say the NCAAs are more difficult. Askerns style didn’t translate to freestyle as well as it worked in folkstyle.
Plus look at the number of college wrestlers to the number of wrestlers on the world senior level. Just because the Olympics involve the whole world doesn’t mean that Yoel is better than Ben at wrestling. If they wrestled freestyle Yoel would win but if they wrestled folkstyle there’s a good chance that Askern would win.
Not being a dick but who has said that about NCAAs vs Olympics? I'm genuinely curious. And Wiggum is one the best wrestling posters on this site and one the reasons I still sift though this forum.
I don’t have a name off the top of my head honestly but I’ve heard it dozens of times throughout the years at camps and shit. As mentioned it’s more about the grind. You’ve been making weight all season and wrestling savages on a weekly basis for months plus the savages you wrestle daily in the practice room. It all culminates with a large 32ish man bracket at the NCAAs. Just the sheer amount of wrestling leading up to that is enough to mentally 95% of society, at least.
askren was and is great at freestyle way tougher making the Olympic team in open devidion than NCAAs Just because he didnt place in Olympics does not mean he didnt transfer well .To make the Olympic team u have to be great.And Wiggum is probly the most knowledgable wrestling fan on this site along with Sin City Hustler
He was definitely great at freestyle as well but his funky style did not transfer over to freestyle as well. For one you can’t funk roll in the conventional sense in freestyle because it exposes your back. For two mat wrestling where Ben thrived is basically eliminated in freestyle. I could break it down a lot of details but basically Ben’s style was made for folkstyle and had to be heavily modified for freestyle.
I’m not known on this forum like wiggum or sin city hustler but I wrestled for 15 years and coached for several afterwards. If there’s anything in the world I understand it’s wrestling. I also never even implied either one of them weren't knowledgible so I am consfused as to why people keep mentioning it.
I’ve never seen you say anything negative about either of us. I’ve only seen thoughtful comments.
Americans consider domestic university sports to be the highest level of athletic competition but this hype is ridiculous. Yoel Romero for example holds six Olympic and world championship medals. Askren competed in one Olympics, where he was 1-1.
I agree that MMA wrestling is different from sport wrestling. While GSP never competed in wrestling, he put wrestled US school champs like Trigg, Hughes and Fitch in the Cage. Askren taking down some Cambodian kids in MMA who never even training in wrestling before only qualifies him as the best wrestler in MMA in south-east Asia.
A lot of athletes who have competed in both the olympics and the ncaa championship say the NCAAs are more difficult. Askerns style didn’t translate to freestyle as well as it worked in folkstyle.
Plus look at the number of college wrestlers to the number of wrestlers on the world senior level. Just because the Olympics involve the whole world doesn’t mean that Yoel is better than Ben at wrestling. If they wrestled freestyle Yoel would win but if they wrestled folkstyle there’s a good chance that Askern would win.
Not being a dick but who has said that about NCAAs vs Olympics? I'm genuinely curious. And Wiggum is one the best wrestling posters on this site and one the reasons I still sift though this forum.
I don’t have a name off the top of my head honestly but I’ve heard it dozens of times throughout the years at camps and shit. As mentioned it’s more about the grind. You’ve been making weight all season and wrestling savages on a weekly basis for months plus the savages you wrestle daily in the practice room. It all culminates with a large 32ish man bracket at the NCAAs. Just the sheer amount of wrestling leading up to that is enough to mentally 95% of society, at least.
askren was and is great at freestyle way tougher making the Olympic team in open devidion than NCAAs Just because he didnt place in Olympics does not mean he didnt transfer well .To make the Olympic team u have to be great.And Wiggum is probly the most knowledgable wrestling fan on this site along with Sin City Hustler
He was definitely great at freestyle as well but his funky style did not transfer over to freestyle as well. For one you can’t funk roll in the conventional sense in freestyle because it exposes your back. For two mat wrestling where Ben thrived is basically eliminated in freestyle. I could break it down a lot of details but basically Ben’s style was made for folkstyle and had to be heavily modified for freestyle.
I’m not known on this forum like wiggum or sin city hustler but I wrestled for 15 years and coached for several afterwards. If there’s anything in the world I understand it’s wrestling. I also never even implied either one of them weren't knowledgible so I am consfused as to why people keep mentioning it.
I’ve never seen you say anything negative about either of us. I’ve only seen thoughtful comments.
Thank you lol, idk why every post I make someone mentions the knowledge one of you bring to the table as if I denied it somewhere along the way.
Americans consider domestic university sports to be the highest level of athletic competition but this hype is ridiculous. Yoel Romero for example holds six Olympic and world championship medals. Askren competed in one Olympics, where he was 1-1.
I agree that MMA wrestling is different from sport wrestling. While GSP never competed in wrestling, he put wrestled US school champs like Trigg, Hughes and Fitch in the Cage. Askren taking down some Cambodian kids in MMA who never even training in wrestling before only qualifies him as the best wrestler in MMA in south-east Asia.
A lot of athletes who have competed in both the olympics and the ncaa championship say the NCAAs are more difficult. Askerns style didn’t translate to freestyle as well as it worked in folkstyle.
Plus look at the number of college wrestlers to the number of wrestlers on the world senior level. Just because the Olympics involve the whole world doesn’t mean that Yoel is better than Ben at wrestling. If they wrestled freestyle Yoel would win but if they wrestled folkstyle there’s a good chance that Askern would win.
Not being a dick but who has said that about NCAAs vs Olympics? I'm genuinely curious. And Wiggum is one the best wrestling posters on this site and one the reasons I still sift though this forum.
I don’t have a name off the top of my head honestly but I’ve heard it dozens of times throughout the years at camps and shit. As mentioned it’s more about the grind. You’ve been making weight all season and wrestling savages on a weekly basis for months plus the savages you wrestle daily in the practice room. It all culminates with a large 32ish man bracket at the NCAAs. Just the sheer amount of wrestling leading up to that is enough to mentally 95% of society, at least.
askren was and is great at freestyle way tougher making the Olympic team in open devidion than NCAAs Just because he didnt place in Olympics does not mean he didnt transfer well .To make the Olympic team u have to be great.And Wiggum is probly the most knowledgable wrestling fan on this site along with Sin City Hustler
He was definitely great at freestyle as well but his funky style did not transfer over to freestyle as well. For one you can’t funk roll in the conventional sense in freestyle because it exposes your back. For two mat wrestling where Ben thrived is basically eliminated in freestyle. I could break it down a lot of details but basically Ben’s style was made for folkstyle and had to be heavily modified for freestyle.
I’m not known on this forum like wiggum or sin city hustler but I wrestled for 15 years and coached for several afterwards. If there’s anything in the world I understand it’s wrestling. I also never even implied either one of them weren't knowledgible so I am consfused as to why people keep mentioning it.
ahh he made the Olympic team in free and u say it didnt transfer ? Only 1 guy per weight in the entire country and u say it didnt transfer well because he didnt place Did u make the free Olympic team or did anyone u wrestled or know make the team ?
Americans consider domestic university sports to be the highest level of athletic competition but this hype is ridiculous. Yoel Romero for example holds six Olympic and world championship medals. Askren competed in one Olympics, where he was 1-1.
I agree that MMA wrestling is different from sport wrestling. While GSP never competed in wrestling, he put wrestled US school champs like Trigg, Hughes and Fitch in the Cage. Askren taking down some Cambodian kids in MMA who never even training in wrestling before only qualifies him as the best wrestler in MMA in south-east Asia.
A lot of athletes who have competed in both the olympics and the ncaa championship say the NCAAs are more difficult. Askerns style didn’t translate to freestyle as well as it worked in folkstyle.
Plus look at the number of college wrestlers to the number of wrestlers on the world senior level. Just because the Olympics involve the whole world doesn’t mean that Yoel is better than Ben at wrestling. If they wrestled freestyle Yoel would win but if they wrestled folkstyle there’s a good chance that Askern would win.
Not being a dick but who has said that about NCAAs vs Olympics? I'm genuinely curious. And Wiggum is one the best wrestling posters on this site and one the reasons I still sift though this forum.
I don’t have a name off the top of my head honestly but I’ve heard it dozens of times throughout the years at camps and shit. As mentioned it’s more about the grind. You’ve been making weight all season and wrestling savages on a weekly basis for months plus the savages you wrestle daily in the practice room. It all culminates with a large 32ish man bracket at the NCAAs. Just the sheer amount of wrestling leading up to that is enough to mentally 95% of society, at least.
askren was and is great at freestyle way tougher making the Olympic team in open devidion than NCAAs Just because he didnt place in Olympics does not mean he didnt transfer well .To make the Olympic team u have to be great.And Wiggum is probly the most knowledgable wrestling fan on this site along with Sin City Hustler
He was definitely great at freestyle as well but his funky style did not transfer over to freestyle as well. For one you can’t funk roll in the conventional sense in freestyle because it exposes your back. For two mat wrestling where Ben thrived is basically eliminated in freestyle. I could break it down a lot of details but basically Ben’s style was made for folkstyle and had to be heavily modified for freestyle.
I’m not known on this forum like wiggum or sin city hustler but I wrestled for 15 years and coached for several afterwards. If there’s anything in the world I understand it’s wrestling. I also never even implied either one of them weren't knowledgible so I am consfused as to why people keep mentioning it.
ahh he made the Olympic team in free and u say it didnt transfer ? Only 1 guy per weight in the entire country and u say it didnt transfer well because he didnt place Did u make the free Olympic team or did anyone u wrestled or know make the team ?
That just shows how good he was because his style was not designed for freestyle wrestling. I never said he wasn’t good at freestyle wrestling, I’m not sure why you are suddenly going attack dog on me. But if you think he was as good at freestyle as he was at folkstyle then you do not know wrestling, period.
There are other wrestlers like Burroughs who has a style that fits into freestyle better than it fit into folkstyle. That doesn't mean he wasn't amazing folkstyle wrestler too, it just means freestyle fit him better. Askern was a killer freestyle wrestler but his style fit better into folkstyle.
Put these freestyle legends like a Yoel (who's somewhat close to Askren's weight) against Ben with folkstyle rules and I think you'd be shocked. Olympic, freestyle wrestling is quite a bit different and gameplans/ styles are predicated more on defense maneuvers than anything else. Yoel is a perfect example. He is a freak of nature and we have seen his ability to take down, ragdoll, control and basically have his way with his opponents in the octagon whenever he so chooses. The thing is, he implements very little of his offensive wrestling game into MMA. And that's why he seems to not worry or have a care in the world about being taken down, because he just pops back up when he wants to and is dang near impossible to control on the ground. Contrast his style with Cormier's (whose wrestling style more closely resembles Ben's), who is very aggressive offensively and is almost impossible to take down. American wrestling is his foundation and it has made him one of the greatest of all time. Now Ben's striking should not even be talked about in the same sentence as Daniel's, but with as dominant as he is with his wrestling and gnp, he can afford to have subpar striking and standup, that is until he takes on someone like GSP, which like I said before will almost certainly never happen, even though I know a lot of us would love to see it.
Americans consider domestic university sports to be the highest level of athletic competition but this hype is ridiculous. Yoel Romero for example holds six Olympic and world championship medals. Askren competed in one Olympics, where he was 1-1.
I agree that MMA wrestling is different from sport wrestling. While GSP never competed in wrestling, he put wrestled US school champs like Trigg, Hughes and Fitch in the Cage. Askren taking down some Cambodian kids in MMA who never even training in wrestling before only qualifies him as the best wrestler in MMA in south-east Asia.
A lot of athletes who have competed in both the olympics and the ncaa championship say the NCAAs are more difficult. Askerns style didn’t translate to freestyle as well as it worked in folkstyle.
Plus look at the number of college wrestlers to the number of wrestlers on the world senior level. Just because the Olympics involve the whole world doesn’t mean that Yoel is better than Ben at wrestling. If they wrestled freestyle Yoel would win but if they wrestled folkstyle there’s a good chance that Askern would win.
Not being a dick but who has said that about NCAAs vs Olympics? I'm genuinely curious. And Wiggum is one the best wrestling posters on this site and one the reasons I still sift though this forum.
I don’t have a name off the top of my head honestly but I’ve heard it dozens of times throughout the years at camps and shit. As mentioned it’s more about the grind. You’ve been making weight all season and wrestling savages on a weekly basis for months plus the savages you wrestle daily in the practice room. It all culminates with a large 32ish man bracket at the NCAAs. Just the sheer amount of wrestling leading up to that is enough to mentally 95% of society, at least.
askren was and is great at freestyle way tougher making the Olympic team in open devidion than NCAAs Just because he didnt place in Olympics does not mean he didnt transfer well .To make the Olympic team u have to be great.And Wiggum is probly the most knowledgable wrestling fan on this site along with Sin City Hustler
He was definitely great at freestyle as well but his funky style did not transfer over to freestyle as well. For one you can’t funk roll in the conventional sense in freestyle because it exposes your back. For two mat wrestling where Ben thrived is basically eliminated in freestyle. I could break it down a lot of details but basically Ben’s style was made for folkstyle and had to be heavily modified for freestyle.
I’m not known on this forum like wiggum or sin city hustler but I wrestled for 15 years and coached for several afterwards. If there’s anything in the world I understand it’s wrestling. I also never even implied either one of them weren't knowledgible so I am consfused as to why people keep mentioning it.
ahh he made the Olympic team in free and u say it didnt transfer ? Only 1 guy per weight in the entire country and u say it didnt transfer well because he didnt place Did u make the free Olympic team or did anyone u wrestled or know make the team ?
That just shows how good he was because his style was not designed for freestyle wrestling. I never said he wasn’t good at freestyle wrestling, I’m not sure why you are suddenly going attack dog on me. But if you think he was as good at freestyle as he was at folkstyle then you do not know wrestling, period.
There are other wrestlers like Burroughs who has a style that fits into freestyle better than it fit into folkstyle. That doesn't mean he wasn't amazing folkstyle wrestler too, it just means freestyle fit him better. Askern was a killer freestyle wrestler but his style fit better into folkstyle.
to make the Olypmic team u have to be the BEST in the USA any age group.NCAAs are for college KIDS only He was great at both.Burroughs also was great at both
in all honesty yes he is known more for college wrestling Ill give u that But nothing to sneaze at making USA Olympic team To say he wasnt great at both is wrong to make the Olympic team u got to be super
I haven’t seen Yoel use wrestling in mma as well as Askren has imo.
And its it’s not just wrestling thats used in mma, hence the name mma. Askren has a unique style of grappling that has some nasty wrestling for scrambles and painful control along with bjj defense with a little sub offense and ground and pound to round out his grappling style. It’s a sick style for mma.
Khabibs grappling style is also one of the best blends for mma. Always attacking and his heavy use of both strikes and submissions doesn’t cost him much in control either.
That will be a great fight to watch.
Yoel really hasnt had to put on his full array of wrestling skill very often in mma. He fights to knock people out 1st and foremost whereas Askren wrestlepounds people so his wrestling will always be on full display in all his fights.
There's been moments when he use to ankle pick with ease and it was unreal
Winston Wolf - in all honesty yes he is known more for college wrestling Ill give u that But nothing to sneaze at making USA Olympic team To say he wasnt great at both is wrong to make the Olympic team u got to be super
I never said he wasn’t great at both. I simply said his style was better suited for folkstyle. That was in noway an insult to him or his accomplishments. I’m a huge fan but certain styles favor certain rule sets, that’s just sports.
The olympic trials have less people competing than in the NCAAs and the trials aren’t followed by 3 month meat grinder of a season. I’m not saying the wrestling technique or skill in the NCAAs is better than in trials, not at all. I’m just saying winning the NCAAs in some ways can be as difficult and as great as an accomplishment as winning the trials. Dake beat Taylor at NCAAs when they were college seniors, two future world champions. So tell one of them that it’s just a tournament with KIDS.
Winston Wolf - in all honesty yes he is known more for college wrestling Ill give u that But nothing to sneaze at making USA Olympic team To say he wasnt great at both is wrong to make the Olympic team u got to be super
I never said he wasn’t great at both. I simply said his style was better suited for folkstyle. That was in noway an insult to him or his accomplishments. I’m a huge fan but certain styles favor certain rule sets, that’s just sports.
The olympic trials have less people competing than in the NCAAs and the trials aren’t followed by 3 month meat grinder of a season. I’m not saying the wrestling technique or skill in the NCAAs is better than in trials, not at all. I’m just saying winning the NCAAs in some ways can be as difficult and as great as an accomplishment as winning the trials. Dake beat Taylor at NCAAs when they were college seniors, two future world champions. So tell one of them that it’s just a tournament with KIDS.
Based on my experience:
Winning freestyle nationals is a far more impressive accomplishment. Making the world/Olympic team is way harder in terms of SKILL. Jordan Burroughs was in the same weight as Kyle Dake, Andrew Howe, and David Taylor in one year. No NCAA weight class has ever looked like that.
However, the GRIND of the college season is far harder than the freestyle circuit PHYSICALLY.
DC got Bronze at the World Championship and 4th at the Olympics.
Askren is obviously a great wrestler but it is hard for me to forget what Luis Santos did to him. Luis (judo blackbelt) said he was going to use his judo to toss Askren around and that is exactly what he did.
Askren is obviously a good fighter but I don't think he will be the champ in the UFC.
Winston Wolf - in all honesty yes he is known more for college wrestling Ill give u that But nothing to sneaze at making USA Olympic team To say he wasnt great at both is wrong to make the Olympic team u got to be super
I never said he wasn’t great at both. I simply said his style was better suited for folkstyle. That was in noway an insult to him or his accomplishments. I’m a huge fan but certain styles favor certain rule sets, that’s just sports.
The olympic trials have less people competing than in the NCAAs and the trials aren’t followed by 3 month meat grinder of a season. I’m not saying the wrestling technique or skill in the NCAAs is better than in trials, not at all. I’m just saying winning the NCAAs in some ways can be as difficult and as great as an accomplishment as winning the trials. Dake beat Taylor at NCAAs when they were college seniors, two future world champions. So tell one of them that it’s just a tournament with KIDS.
Based on my experience:
Winning freestyle nationals is a far more impressive accomplishment. Making the world/Olympic team is way harder in terms of SKILL. Jordan Burroughs was in the same weight as Kyle Dake, Andrew Howe, and David Taylor in one year. No NCAA weight class has ever looked like that.
However, the GRIND of the college season is far harder than the freestyle circuit PHYSICALLY.
I agree completely. I think making a world team is definitely a bigger accomplishment but as said that grind of a season and how grinding the post season is really make an NCAA title an insanely impressive feat.
There is someone I remember saying how winning an NCAA title felt better than winning a world team spot. I can’t remember who said it or the exact quote. It’s similar to how winning some big college football games mean more emotionally than some of the big pro wins. I wish I could find the quote..
Winston Wolf - in all honesty yes he is known more for college wrestling Ill give u that But nothing to sneaze at making USA Olympic team To say he wasnt great at both is wrong to make the Olympic team u got to be super
I never said he wasn’t great at both. I simply said his style was better suited for folkstyle. That was in noway an insult to him or his accomplishments. I’m a huge fan but certain styles favor certain rule sets, that’s just sports.
The olympic trials have less people competing than in the NCAAs and the trials aren’t followed by 3 month meat grinder of a season. I’m not saying the wrestling technique or skill in the NCAAs is better than in trials, not at all. I’m just saying winning the NCAAs in some ways can be as difficult and as great as an accomplishment as winning the trials. Dake beat Taylor at NCAAs when they were college seniors, two future world champions. So tell one of them that it’s just a tournament with KIDS.
the trials dont really have less they have to qualify and guys in it are mostly all NCAA champs and top wrestlers