Askren Not Best Wrestler in MMA

wiggum - 
fan4000 - 
Winston Wolf - in all honesty yes he is known more for college wrestling Ill give u that But nothing to sneaze at making USA Olympic team To say he wasnt great at both is wrong to make the Olympic team u got to be super

I never said he wasn’t great at both. I simply said his style was better suited for folkstyle. That was in noway an insult to him or his accomplishments. I’m a huge fan but certain styles favor certain rule sets, that’s just sports. 

The olympic trials have less people competing than in the NCAAs and the trials aren’t followed by 3 month meat grinder of a season. I’m not saying the wrestling technique or skill in the NCAAs is better than in trials, not at all. I’m just saying winning the NCAAs in some ways can be as difficult and as great as an accomplishment as winning the trials. Dake beat Taylor at NCAAs when they were college seniors, two future world champions. So tell one of them that it’s just a tournament with KIDS.  

Based on my experience:

Winning freestyle nationals is a far more impressive accomplishment. Making the world/Olympic team is way harder in terms of SKILL. Jordan Burroughs was in the same weight as Kyle Dake, Andrew Howe, and David Taylor in one year. No NCAA weight class has ever looked like that.

However, the GRIND of the college season is far harder than the freestyle circuit PHYSICALLY.

excatly u had Dake Taylor and Burroughs the same weight at trials all the weights are far more stacked than any NCAA tourney

TexDeuce - 

DC got Bronze at the World Championship and 4th at the Olympics. 

Askren is obviously a great wrestler but it is hard for me to forget what Luis Santos did to him. Luis (judo blackbelt) said he was going to use his judo to toss Askren around and that is exactly what he did.

Askren is obviously a good fighter but I don't think he will be the champ in the UFC.

Santos was on roids

Winston Wolf -
wiggum - 
fan4000 - 
Winston Wolf - in all honesty yes he is known more for college wrestling Ill give u that But nothing to sneaze at making USA Olympic team To say he wasnt great at both is wrong to make the Olympic team u got to be super

I never said he wasn’t great at both. I simply said his style was better suited for folkstyle. That was in noway an insult to him or his accomplishments. I’m a huge fan but certain styles favor certain rule sets, that’s just sports. 

The olympic trials have less people competing than in the NCAAs and the trials aren’t followed by 3 month meat grinder of a season. I’m not saying the wrestling technique or skill in the NCAAs is better than in trials, not at all. I’m just saying winning the NCAAs in some ways can be as difficult and as great as an accomplishment as winning the trials. Dake beat Taylor at NCAAs when they were college seniors, two future world champions. So tell one of them that it’s just a tournament with KIDS.  

Based on my experience:

Winning freestyle nationals is a far more impressive accomplishment. Making the world/Olympic team is way harder in terms of SKILL. Jordan Burroughs was in the same weight as Kyle Dake, Andrew Howe, and David Taylor in one year. No NCAA weight class has ever looked like that.

However, the GRIND of the college season is far harder than the freestyle circuit PHYSICALLY.

excatly u had Dake Taylor and Burroughs the same weight at trials all the weights are far more stacked than any NCAA tourney

Yeah the skill level at WTT is a step up, only the elite of the elite of the elite for sure. 

fan4000 - 
wiggum -
fan4000 - 
Winston Wolf - in all honesty yes he is known more for college wrestling Ill give u that But nothing to sneaze at making USA Olympic team To say he wasnt great at both is wrong to make the Olympic team u got to be super

I never said he wasn’t great at both. I simply said his style was better suited for folkstyle. That was in noway an insult to him or his accomplishments. I’m a huge fan but certain styles favor certain rule sets, that’s just sports. 

The olympic trials have less people competing than in the NCAAs and the trials aren’t followed by 3 month meat grinder of a season. I’m not saying the wrestling technique or skill in the NCAAs is better than in trials, not at all. I’m just saying winning the NCAAs in some ways can be as difficult and as great as an accomplishment as winning the trials. Dake beat Taylor at NCAAs when they were college seniors, two future world champions. So tell one of them that it’s just a tournament with KIDS.  

Based on my experience:

Winning freestyle nationals is a far more impressive accomplishment. Making the world/Olympic team is way harder in terms of SKILL. Jordan Burroughs was in the same weight as Kyle Dake, Andrew Howe, and David Taylor in one year. No NCAA weight class has ever looked like that.

However, the GRIND of the college season is far harder than the freestyle circuit PHYSICALLY.

I agree completely. I think making a world team is definitely a bigger accomplishment but as said that grind of a season and how grinding the post season is really make an NCAA title an insanely impressive feat. 

There is someone I remember saying how winning an NCAA title felt better than winning a world team spot. I can’t remember who said it or the exact quote. It’s similar to how winning some big college football games mean more emotionally than some of the big pro wins. I wish I could find the quote.. 

I think winning a state title might feel better, as well. It’s a bigger stage, bigger crowd, more fans, etc. Plus, you’re younger.

Winston Wolf - 
wiggum - winston wolf: I think it's still fair to say that Askren was better at folk, despite being excellent at freestyle.

On a list of best-ever American folkstyle wrestlers, Askren is on the short list of all-time greats. In my opinion, he’s top 10 all-time.

He isn’t, IMO, top 10 all-time American freestylers. We have too many world and Olympic champions.

He was the best American freestyler at his weight for a couple years. But he is one of the GOATs of folkstyle.

i agree he did better in folk but to win Olympics IMO is well tougher than NCAAs

Agreed!

fan4000 - 
Winston Wolf - in all honesty yes he is known more for college wrestling Ill give u that But nothing to sneaze at making USA Olympic team To say he wasnt great at both is wrong to make the Olympic team u got to be super

I never said he wasn’t great at both. I simply said his style was better suited for folkstyle. That was in noway an insult to him or his accomplishments. I’m a huge fan but certain styles favor certain rule sets, that’s just sports. 

The olympic trials have less people competing than in the NCAAs and the trials aren’t followed by 3 month meat grinder of a season. I’m not saying the wrestling technique or skill in the NCAAs is better than in trials, not at all. I’m just saying winning the NCAAs in some ways can be as difficult and as great as an accomplishment as winning the trials. Dake beat Taylor at NCAAs when they were college seniors, two future world champions. So tell one of them that it’s just a tournament with KIDS.  

i may have got u confused with guy who insulted wiggum my bad

Winston Wolf - 
fan4000 - 
Winston Wolf - in all honesty yes he is known more for college wrestling Ill give u that But nothing to sneaze at making USA Olympic team To say he wasnt great at both is wrong to make the Olympic team u got to be super

I never said he wasn’t great at both. I simply said his style was better suited for folkstyle. That was in noway an insult to him or his accomplishments. I’m a huge fan but certain styles favor certain rule sets, that’s just sports. 

The olympic trials have less people competing than in the NCAAs and the trials aren’t followed by 3 month meat grinder of a season. I’m not saying the wrestling technique or skill in the NCAAs is better than in trials, not at all. I’m just saying winning the NCAAs in some ways can be as difficult and as great as an accomplishment as winning the trials. Dake beat Taylor at NCAAs when they were college seniors, two future world champions. So tell one of them that it’s just a tournament with KIDS.  

i may have got u confused with guy who insulted wiggum my bad

Nobody on this forum is more honest than WW.

Winston Wolf -
fan4000 - 
Winston Wolf - in all honesty yes he is known more for college wrestling Ill give u that But nothing to sneaze at making USA Olympic team To say he wasnt great at both is wrong to make the Olympic team u got to be super

I never said he wasn’t great at both. I simply said his style was better suited for folkstyle. That was in noway an insult to him or his accomplishments. I’m a huge fan but certain styles favor certain rule sets, that’s just sports. 

The olympic trials have less people competing than in the NCAAs and the trials aren’t followed by 3 month meat grinder of a season. I’m not saying the wrestling technique or skill in the NCAAs is better than in trials, not at all. I’m just saying winning the NCAAs in some ways can be as difficult and as great as an accomplishment as winning the trials. Dake beat Taylor at NCAAs when they were college seniors, two future world champions. So tell one of them that it’s just a tournament with KIDS.  

i may have got u confused with guy who insulted wiggum my bad

Haha it’s cool 

We can argue, but now we get to find out. 

I've hated on Askren because he talked so much shit while fighting nobodies. Well, he stepped up and there s nothing to hate on. He gets to put his money where his mouth is and that's all I care about. Let's see what he's got. No point in speculating anymore. 

If he wins the UFC belt he’s the most decorated combat sports athlete of all time. Either him or DC.

CRE - If he wins the UFC belt he's the most decorated combat sports athlete of all time. Either him or DC.

mmmmmmmmmmmm, I think Cejudo’s olympic gold would trump Askren’s Bellator/One championship.

chupecabre -

We can argue, but now we get to find out. 

I've hated on Askren because he talked so much shit while fighting nobodies. Well, he stepped up and there s nothing to hate on. He gets to put his money where his mouth is and that's all I care about. Let's see what he's got. No point in speculating anymore. 

he stepped up years ago and the UFC did a screw job on him... he has been seeking the biggest challenges he could since he was a teenager...

Slowshot - 
CRE - If he wins the UFC belt he's the most decorated combat sports athlete of all time. Either him or DC.

mmmmmmmmmmmm, I think Cejudo’s olympic gold would trump Askren’s Bellator/One championship.

Understood, especially if Cejudo can beat TJ Dillashaw, but Askren’s a 2X NCAA Champion and 2X runner up, 3X BIG 12 Champ, 2x Hodge Trophy winner. The Hodge Trophy being the Heisman of wrestling.

At least we’re getting some of that undefeated Fedor finally fighting in the UFC aura.

Also, for Winston Wolf, I would agree that Olympic Gold is a more impressive accomplishment than NCAA title, THAT SAID, I don’t quite think that’s the argument that fan4000 is making.

I THINK the argument that he’s making (and fan4000 can correct me if I’m wrong) is as follows:

  1. Ben very well may be as good at Folkstyle as Yoel is at freestyle.

a) Folkstyle is different enough from freestyle that success at one is not necessarily a complete proxy for skill at the other. There’s a LOT of carry over, yes, but there’s also enough different that one can be the GOAT at one, and not necessarily at the other.

b) While an Olympic Gold is more impressive than an NCAA title, Ben was more dominant in Folkstyle than Yoel was in Freestyle. It’s akin to a guy averaging 45 a game in Mid-Major basketball. Is he a better player than the guy averaging 20 a game at Kentucky? I don’t know, but it’s an interesting discussion to have. Yes, Yoel was a great freestyle wrestler, but nobody mentions him when they’re discussing “the greatest who ever did it”. Askren is in that conversation in Folkstyle.

I’m not saying I have a strong opinion one way or the other, just that I don’t think fan4000 is coming out of cloudcuckooland with his reasoning.

CRE - 
Slowshot - 
CRE - If he wins the UFC belt he's the most decorated combat sports athlete of all time. Either him or DC.

mmmmmmmmmmmm, I think Cejudo’s olympic gold would trump Askren’s Bellator/One championship.

Understood, especially if Cejudo can beat TJ Dillashaw, but Askren’s a 2X NCAA Champion and 2X runner up, 3X BIG 12 Champ, 2x Hodge Trophy winner. The Hodge Trophy being the Heisman of wrestling.

At least we’re getting some of that undefeated Fedor finally fighting in the UFC aura.

Yeah, but I REALLY wish it had been 3 years ago.

Askren will get worked in the ufc.  Anyone that has decent take down defense will put it on him. Exhibit A. Sapo fight.  

Exhibit B. One FC doesn’t offer him any challenges in the wrestling.   

I think Louis Santos is a better wrestler. Did you see the way that he threw Ben around in that fight?! Wow that was something to behold! It's too bad that Ben decided to poke his eyes out to get an advantage. 

Slowshot - 
CRE - 
Slowshot - 
CRE - If he wins the UFC belt he's the most decorated combat sports athlete of all time. Either him or DC.

mmmmmmmmmmmm, I think Cejudo’s olympic gold would trump Askren’s Bellator/One championship.

Understood, especially if Cejudo can beat TJ Dillashaw, but Askren’s a 2X NCAA Champion and 2X runner up, 3X BIG 12 Champ, 2x Hodge Trophy winner. The Hodge Trophy being the Heisman of wrestling.

At least we’re getting some of that undefeated Fedor finally fighting in the UFC aura.

Yeah, but I REALLY wish it had been 3 years ago.

He got great experience in ONE. This recent layoff of almost a year is slightly worrisome, but he’s going to wrestle at Midlands

Garage Karate -

I think Louis Santos is a better wrestler. Did you see the way that he threw Ben around in that fight?! Wow that was something to behold! It's too bad that Ben decided to poke his eyes out to get an advantage. 

santos is on steroids

Garage Karate - 

I think Louis Santos is a better wrestler. Did you see the way that he threw Ben around in that fight?! Wow that was something to behold! It's too bad that Ben decided to poke his eyes out to get an advantage. 

It’s also too bad that Santos couldn’t be professional enough to make weight (or even to come in less than 20 pounds over, after Askren agreed to fight him anyhow).

Santos’ career accomplishment is making it 2:19 with Ben Askren.