NJstileNJ - Why is everyone asking for stats...It happens alot with ATT thats all this thread is about...not stats ...sure they usually make weight but sometimes they miss weight it just seems like it happens more with them than other big campsI think when a camp is accused of being disrespectful of the sport, the standard of evidence should be more than "it seems like it happens more with them". It may happen with them a lot, but it isn't disrespectful to the sport if it turns out that they make weight roughly the same percentage of the time as other camps. I agree that it seems like it happens with them more often, but I can't say for sure that this isn't because every time one of them misses weight there is a thread about it, so I am just more aware of it when it happens with them.
^ Perfect post
Good point Orcus. Hate to say it but I have to disagree with Kirik here -- I'm disappointed at how often this seems to happen with ATT.
It's still probably the best camp in MMA, but this is unprofessional.
someone mentioned it already, but Tibau took his fight on short notice and he is probably the biggest LW in the UFC.
and i dont understand what blaming ATT is for.
what are they gonna do, make their guys cut weight?
if someone fails to make weight, its on them. always. they were the ones who couldn't put the work in, or tried to cut too much.
ajl416az - someone mentioned it already, but Tibau took his fight on short notice and he is probably the biggest LW in the UFC.
and i dont understand what blaming ATT is for.
what are they gonna do, make their guys cut weight?
if someone fails to make weight, its on them. always. they were the ones who couldn't put the work in, or tried to cut too much.
So it's just a coincidence that ATT has so many high profile fighters failing to make weight? The ATT training/cutting program is beyond reproach, they just happen to have numerous "lazy" fighters? If they know their fighters are "lazy" or "too big", why don't they move them up to the next weight class?
I think it's pretty obvious that ATT has a consistent record of trying to push the absolute limits of how big they can have their fighters be in a given weight class. Even aside from the missed weight, all you have to do is look at the majority of their fighters, many of whom dwarf many of the other guys in their class. I don't think the problem is that a couple bad apples "didn't put the work in".
Thiago Alves, Wilson Gouveia, Gleison Tibau, and Masvidal have all missed weight recently for ATT. I know Luigi Fioravanti has as well in the past.
I think the main problem is that they just cut so much weight it leaves little room for error. You have a guy cutting 25-30lbs than there is no room for error when it comes down to making the weight classes they want to compete at.
As a percentage of the total fighters that they have, I'm sure the amount that miss weight is a small percentage. But in terms of high profile shows, ATT has had more guys miss weight then any other I can remember. Paul Rodriguez can be added to the list, BTW.
Sometimes the amount that they don't make weight by is ridiculous. Alves missed weight by 4 lbs. Fiovaranti by over 10 lbs (with the excuse posted on this forum by an ATT person being that people magically put on weight during a long flight).
Nacirema - As a percentage of the total fighters that they have, I'm sure the amount that miss weight is a small percentage. But in terms of high profile shows, ATT has had more guys miss weight then any other I can remember. Paul Rodriguez can be added to the list, BTW.
Sometimes the amount that they don't make weight by is ridiculous. Alves missed weight by 4 lbs. Fiovaranti by over 10 lbs (with the excuse posted on this forum by an ATT person being that people magically put on weight during a long flight).
alves weighed in at 174 so techinically he missed by 3 lol. I also remember the Fiovaranti airplane excuse which many people called him out on.
I am a huge ATT fan (Alves is one of my top 3 favorite fighters) but they just seem to push the limits when it comes to weight cutting. Wilson Gouveia said he walks around at 220-225 yet cuts to 185! He said he was too small for the LHW division yet he was the same size as jardine and other LHWs. Gleison Tibau was a big WW who is now probably the largest LW in the UFC.
Didnt Cavalcante miss weight vs Joe Lauzon once by 6 or 7 lbs? Going back about 5 years or so.
I remember reading a thread about it.
Either way, I doubt anyone at ATT is directly disrespecting the sport, but yeah, a fighter should make the agreed upon weight. Bottom line. End of story.
Jeff-
Of the names you mentioned below I want to correct some things:
Thiago Alves - twice (three if you count the diuretic)
Jorge Masvidal
Gleason Tibau
Luigi Fivoranti
Wilson Gouieva
Thiago Tavares
Simon Coulter
Alves missed once (hughes fight) he might off missed another time at his first attempt but made it when he was giving 1 hour to lose it by the commission.
Masvidal- are you refering to Bellators weigh-in? He did make it on his second attempt which is allowed from the commission. If not, then he was not with us at the time but I'm pretty sure he never missed.
Tibau-Officially both fighters didn't, Tibau would have made it by dropping his shorts but both camps agreed along with the commission. We know Jeremy and Tibau would have made it.
Tavares- I believe he was not with us at the time, he was training out of Brazil
Simon Coulter- Who is he? not on our team.
Jeff, I understand what your saying and everybody here agrees with you. We always address the issue with our fighters when it happens or before it happens. Our fighters have taking steps to make weight. Now there are probably 5-6 personal trainers used by all our fighters. Before there was 1-2 trainers and obviously that did not work.
Is it fair to bring this up or label Tibau because officially he did not make weight and his opponent was 2 lbs over? We were not there to think about what people are going to say about not making weight. If both camps agreed and the commission allows it then we don't want to waste the fighters time and let them get on with business. Neither camp wanted to stay there and wait to make sure the other camp makes weight.
Masvidal opponent did request him to make weight and he did on his second attempt.
Hopefully you see my point of view regarding Tibau and Masvidal.
Primo
orcus - "once again, what's the denominator? And where does that rank to other camps percentage of missed weight?"
Well, as he pointed out, Miletich for example has never had a fighter miss weight that I know of, and their profile used to be as high or higher than ATT's is now. Off the top of my head I can't think of a Chute Boxe, BTT/Black House, Jackson, or AKA fighter missing weight either, although it's certainly possible.
Every one of us can easily name half a dozen high profile fighters from ATT who have missed weight, often by large margins (Alves's four pounds, Luigi missed by like 9 pounds, didn't he?).
^^This.
People can say what they want about Miletich, but they've never had guys miss weight, and their # of fighters and the # of years we've seen them consistently making weight is more extensive than any other camp.
Misedukatd -NJstileNJ - Why is everyone asking for stats...It happens alot with ATT thats all this thread is about...not stats ...sure they usually make weight but sometimes they miss weight it just seems like it happens more with them than other big campsI think when a camp is accused of being disrespectful of the sport, the standard of evidence should be more than "it seems like it happens more with them". It may happen with them a lot, but it isn't disrespectful to the sport if it turns out that they make weight roughly the same percentage of the time as other camps. I agree that it seems like it happens with them more often, but I can't say for sure that this isn't because every time one of them misses weight there is a thread about it, so I am just more aware of it when it happens with them.
THIS
Shiloh -Misedukatd -NJstileNJ - Why is everyone asking for stats...It happens alot with ATT thats all this thread is about...not stats ...sure they usually make weight but sometimes they miss weight it just seems like it happens more with them than other big campsI think when a camp is accused of being disrespectful of the sport, the standard of evidence should be more than "it seems like it happens more with them". It may happen with them a lot, but it isn't disrespectful to the sport if it turns out that they make weight roughly the same percentage of the time as other camps. I agree that it seems like it happens with them more often, but I can't say for sure that this isn't because every time one of them misses weight there is a thread about it, so I am just more aware of it when it happens with them.
THIS
Exactly...I was going to add something like that to my post...That maybe it is just more publicized when it's them...
A large number of ATT guys are on steroids or some form of performance enhancing drugs.
Primo with a great post. Masvidal didn't miss weight, and Tibau's opponent was the reason that bout was fought above 155. He could have made the weight as well.
I think it is more disrespectful is to cheat and take PED's. Although I think 25 percent or more of UFC fighters are on or have taken PED. Of the elite fight teams ATT is the worst abuser.
Hector Lombard, Bobby Lashley, Thiago Alves, Antonio Silva, Jeff Monson, Gleison Tibau, Cole Miller j/k. All these guys are on some form of PED
Do you have some sort of proof that any of these fighters other than Silva ever took any type of enhancer? If not please shut the fuck up.
Jahmal - Do you have some sort of proof that any of these fighters other than Silva ever took any type of enhancer? If not please shut the fuck up.
This
Jahmal - Do you have some sort of proof that any of these fighters other than Silva ever took any type of enhancer? If not please shut the fuck up.
Monson has admitted to using steroids. You are telling me that Bobby Lashley is not on steroids? You fucking retarded.
Ken Shamrock was never on steroids...........oh wait we better wait till he gets caught.