Not even. He’d likely take a worse beating in that match then he’s ever had in an MMA fight. Bo Nickal is a mean SOB, and he tortures people who he doesn’t like. I’m a fan.
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Actually yes. I coached a guy at NAGA once who technically was an awful wrestler. He had zero setups, horrible stance and motion, basically did everything you wouldn’t want somebody to do in neutral. But what could he do? He had very good feel, was a very fast and powerful athlete, and he didn’t need to be good technically. This was one thing that changed my opinion on coaching. Because he could double leg from any position basically. So instead of trying to teach him to do it the correct way, we just fine tuned what he already could do. He took down a state champion wrestler 5x in a match at NAGA. When you wrestle enough you get used to people doing certain things and know what to do. When you run across guys like this who don’t do those things you’ve seen thousands of times in practice it gets unnerving and takes you by surprise. Would this guy be ok in a wrestling match? Maybe. But in something as wide open as NAGA, it didn’t matter. He didn’t have to worry about getting pinned and had good enough cardio to have a high output for 5 minutes. He stuck to the plan and won against a guy who on paper should have beaten him.
I think the same is true here with GSP. He adapts his skills to meet his needs and even though he had a bad stance and poor setups, he made it work. If this had been an actual wrestling match where you can’t choke people, it would have gone much differently.
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A state champion is nowhere near an NCAA champion. Depending on the state and the division, he might not even be that good. If he got taken down five times by the same move by a non-wrestler, then he probably wasn’t. You’re claiming this guy could do the same thing to an NCAA All American? You seem to be saying that athleticism is a better base for takedowns than amateur wrestling in anything other than straight amateur wrestling.
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This, I never even made it to state in California HS and pinned “champs” from Oregon, Nebraska, and Washington. Thought it was so cool at the time now I realise the other state’s structures just blow ass.
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Im enjoying your posts very much!
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Do you support the claim that GSP is a terrible and awkward wrestler with terrible set ups that shouldn’t work on a resisting opponent, but he can double leg NCAA All Americans in ADCC because chokeholds?
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Also, what state?
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There’s also the fact that GSP was considering giving up his UFC title to take a shot at the Olympics in freestyle wrestling. If he is really so bad at pure wrestling, wouldn’t an athlete of his caliber know that? Wouldn’t he be aware that he was getting owned constantly in the wrestling room? Why would he try to make the Olympics?
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Not at all… Ive been around and wrestled alot of great wrestlers. A name that was mentioned here was Kerry McCoy. Kerry didn’t start wrestling until 7th grade. He was a cadet world runner up, and a jr. World Champ. 3x ncaa All american and won 2ncaa titles. I wasnt only from the same county, but the same league… (*he was 2 years older than me)
I make this long-winded introduction regarding Kerry because I was talking with a coach I had tremendous respect for(I had just beat multiple state champs to win the Empire State Game trials, 7 matches) and Kerrys name came up and coach Herman (RIP heart attack @ 57)) said somthing that hit hard. We were talking about how wrestling is such a tough sport especially if you got a late start, and when I mentioned Kerry. He paused, almost like I was being ridiculous, his tone changed and he said dead serious “Kerry? Kerrys very special…”
The way he stopped, changed gears, and said that had such an impact. I thought to myself, I want someone to talk about me like that…
So when I hear anybody talking about Georges St-Pierre and his lack of wrestling experience, his late start in wrestling, or how good he shouldnt be. My response is this at 46… Georges? Georges is very special. Thanks for giving me the perspective recognize that coach Herman
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Did you know that Mark Schultz didn’t start until his junior year?
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I wasn’t aware of that but it would be safe to say that Mark and Dave were also very special
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Great post.
There are a few all-time greats who started wrestling late. And they are all special. As Anek mentioned, Mark Schultz starting wrestling late in high school – while his brother was at the time arguably the GOAT HS wrestler – is just mind blowing.
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Half the field is repatriated dagi’s lol.
I never see chamizo training in Italy, ever lol. That’s another one.
Love when people who truly know what’s up post. Wrestling is such a sick sport and all the greats take different paths. My buddy started in 9th grade and won the states. Point being GSP and others while not a traditional path can and often do achieve greatness
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Not only that but he was like 1-20 or something like that his first year. Told me personally.
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It is kind of a weird thing but some people have the feel for it and end up with good coaching around them. Schultz didn’t really wrestle until he was 16. But he had his brother and other coaches to help him. Adam Wheeler who was a bronze medalist in 2008 was winless as a high school freshman. Carlton Haselrig only wrestled 10 or 12 matches in high school and after he decided against college football, won 6 NCAA championships. Not a typo. It has to be that right combination of natural talent and a coach who has to understand what they are looking at. I coached a high school kid who was a heavyweight. He had wrestled a little his freshman year, but came back as a senior. If we had him another year he would have beaten anyone in the state. He was 6’6 and about 230-235 and strong as a bull. Built a lot like Steve Neal. With him we didn’t want to make things complicated. We taught him 4 or 5 moves. There was no point with more because he was only there a year and we wanted to take advantage of his physical tools. His first match he gets on top to start the 2nd and got his 8 foot long arm in on a half that would make Wade Schalles ask you to take it easy and pinned a returning state placer dead center. Was he a good wrestler? Not really. Could he use his physical skills to make up for his lack of technical prowess? Absolutely. But we were on a short time table and against heavyweights who had better technical skills he would usually lose. I would let him push me around in the room and could get in on the leg and finish about 80% of the time, and I was never noted for being a great shot. But he made me fight for it every time I got to the leg. It got harder to do later in the season. Had he not been a senior he could have added a ton to his skillset in the offseason, gained a lot of mat time and been a killer going forward.
The problem is that even when you get a supreme athlete in wrestling and he goes .500 for the year, most of the time they lose to people who eat, breathe and sleep wrestling while not putting the brakes on at all. To most normal people that is fucking crazy. Spending minimum 4 or 5 hours a day practicing, not to mention the lifting, running and recovery time is nuts. My wife used to have 3 and sometimes 4 a day practices in addition to running 1/4 mile hill sprints afterwards. Wrestling is fucking hard. To get good beyond a certain level basically requires you to decide early on if this is what you want. Cael Sanderson once told a coach I know that if you want to be a D1 champion you meed to cut the bullshit early and live the lifestyle. Outliers exist but even D2 guys are formidable, see Tyrell Fortune, Tervel Dlagnev and Usman.
Keeping guys who are super athletes in is hard. They are used to winning. Now you tell them they aren’t king shit anymore and they sink or swim. I have known several kids, some I coached, who were terrible athletes, not strong or coordinated at all. They became good by doing extra. They stayed after practice to wrestle until the lights got shut off
They ran home. They went home and did stance and motion for an hour after their homework was done. One of my favorite kids to coach ended up a D1 starter for a while. He was never a state champion. He lost the state finals in OT to a defending 2x champion. But he was a dog. He fought you the whole time and would not stop coming at you. He picked up some skills by then but he could will himself into beating guys better than him. The amazing part was his mental preparedness. He never had that adrenaline dump. He could win a close match and be ready to come back and wrestle with the same intensity 45 minutes later. A lot of guys with superior physical skills don’t do that. They have letdowns and gaps. Lesnar fell victim to that. Greg Jones too. But when you get guys with that total package who don’t get afraid, they don’t doubt themselves or play other mind tricks, you get a guy like Steve Neal or Burroughs, or Dake or Mark Schultz all of whom are extremely gifted athletes, that is where you get world class badasses.
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This thread is producing some great posts about wrestling.
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Fuck, Vince Vaughn straight gave the fuck up. Change his name to shipwreck.
The thing with GSP is I will grant his wrestling is not bad. Awkward and weird, sure. But is he even sniffing the top echelon in Canada? No. He lost badly when he practiced with the better Canadians at his weight. His talk of trying for the Olympics was just that. Talk. He might, and even that is a slim chance, might have been able to slog through a tournament and have the stars align for him to make a world team (non Olympic year). Also most of Canada’s good wrestlers are imports. Daniel Ignali is from Nigeria. Gia Sissaouri is from Georgia
Matt Gentry is from the US. Gary Bohay grew up in the states and wrestled at ASU. Hetag Pliev is Russian. There have been very few native Canadians who succeeded. I think one of the few recently was Amaveer Dhesi who was born in BC but wrestled in college for Oregon State. Other than that only Bob Molle who won a silver in 84 and Chris Wilson who inexplicably had Arsen Fadzaev’s number in the late 80s/early 90s are the best two I can think of. Their women is another story.
Now if GSP quit mma completely, moved to a RTC in the states and did nothing but wrestle, learn and compete 2-3 times a year for 4 years then I would say he maybe has a 50/50 shot. And that is assuming he stays injury free, learns, and doesn’t take time off. Especially at 74kg which is full of killers around the world. Even at 86 it would be rough as hell. Between 74, 86, and 97 the US has to leave 2 world champions on the bench. Then in order to qualify for the Olympics you have to basically beat either Cuba or the US unless they are on the opposite Side of the bracket. Even then you probably would meet a US or Cuban defector wrestling for another country. Or some total unknown like Destribats from Argentina who pinned the US rep in the semis. That is how hard it is just to qualify for the games. GSP never was or will do it in a year. To him it isn’t worth it.
Just like another boxer saying MMA guys cant box.
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