I find it sad how misinformed many bjj practitioners are about catch and how defensive they get. It reminds me of the mentality of a tkd guy from the mid 90's "TKD is the BEST!"
I train with people of all styles and every system has it's good points. I hate when people get all butt hurt when another style is mentioned.
SpartanFightClub -e. kaye -
Pins? I was not talking about pins. Everyone always focuses on pins. Pins are irrelevant.
Pins are an anachronism from a set of rules from days gone by.
I have been taught CACC as a modern fighting/grappling art. No pins. And in CACC the bottom position is called a body scissors.
What??If you're not using pins, then you're not doing cacc my friend.
Saying that pins are irrelevent is about the same thing that saying the guard is irrevelent in bjj...
Pins mean CONTROL, how the hell can you say they are irrelevant?? Seriously?
CACC is WRESTLING + subs, never ever forget that.
Who's you're cacc coach??
We do try to pin at my gym but we don't count it as a fall. CACC for life.
Happiness Bunny -SpartanFightClub -e. kaye -
Pins? I was not talking about pins. Everyone always focuses on pins. Pins are irrelevant.
Pins are an anachronism from a set of rules from days gone by.
I have been taught CACC as a modern fighting/grappling art. No pins. And in CACC the bottom position is called a body scissors.
What??If you're not using pins, then you're not doing cacc my friend.
Saying that pins are irrelevent is about the same thing that saying the guard is irrevelent in bjj...
Pins mean CONTROL, how the hell can you say they are irrelevant?? Seriously?
CACC is WRESTLING + subs, never ever forget that.
Who's you're cacc coach??
We do try to pin at my gym but we don't count it as a fall. CACC for life.
Do you know anybody who trains just wrestling, or just BJJ? Anybody who puts in the time to master one, is putting in time to develop the other. People getting defensive seems silly to me. They're really just arguing semantics and bickering over labels. The skills overlap hugely.
I can't imagine an up and comer in Brazil who still believes that BJJ is enough without wrestling. Or a wrestler who thinks they don't need to know the submissions. Both groups are turning in to something like what Catch As Catch Can has been for centuries? How far back does Catch go? I'm not aware.
Happiness Bunny - This is a good article
http://snakepitusa.com/about-us/catch-wrestling-history/
I actually just finished reading that before I came back to ask. It doesn't say. It says the origins have been lost in history.
stonepony -Happiness Bunny - This is a good article
http://snakepitusa.com/about-us/catch-wrestling-history/
I actually just finished reading that before I came back to ask. It doesn't say. It says the origins have been lost in history.
Yeah it goes really far back. There are many stories of the origins but nothing can be confirmed.
Happiness Bunny -stonepony -Happiness Bunny - This is a good article
http://snakepitusa.com/about-us/catch-wrestling-history/
I actually just finished reading that before I came back to ask. It doesn't say. It says the origins have been lost in history.
Yeah it goes really far back. There are many stories of the origins but nothing can be confirmed.
Perhaps our schools should start incorporating CACC. It's far more relevant today. Especially with the Olympic tendency to fuck over any sport that Americans do very well in. These kids could spend their lives prepping for the Olympics, only to show up and their sport is gone. Catch could give the sport a shot in the arm.
stonepony -Happiness Bunny -stonepony -Happiness Bunny - This is a good article
http://snakepitusa.com/about-us/catch-wrestling-history/
I actually just finished reading that before I came back to ask. It doesn't say. It says the origins have been lost in history.
Yeah it goes really far back. There are many stories of the origins but nothing can be confirmed.
Perhaps our schools should start incorporating CACC. It's far more relevant today. Especially with the Olympic tendency to fuck over any sport that Americans do very well in. These kids could spend their lives prepping for the Olympics, only to show up and their sport is gone. Catch could give the sport a shot in the arm.
As cool as that would be for a cacc program in schools I don't think it is wise to show hormonal teenagers holds that could potentially cripple and or kill someone.
Happiness Bunny -stonepony -Happiness Bunny -stonepony -Happiness Bunny - This is a good article
http://snakepitusa.com/about-us/catch-wrestling-history/
I actually just finished reading that before I came back to ask. It doesn't say. It says the origins have been lost in history.
Yeah it goes really far back. There are many stories of the origins but nothing can be confirmed.
Perhaps our schools should start incorporating CACC. It's far more relevant today. Especially with the Olympic tendency to fuck over any sport that Americans do very well in. These kids could spend their lives prepping for the Olympics, only to show up and their sport is gone. Catch could give the sport a shot in the arm.
As cool as that would be for a cacc program in schools I don't think it is wise to show hormonal teenagers holds that could potentially cripple and or kill someone.
I think kids who have these activities, training any martial art, tend to be more disciplined and more civilized. Less likely to bully or to be bullied.
JJ in our schools would be great too. IMO.
stonepony -Happiness Bunny -stonepony -Happiness Bunny -stonepony -Happiness Bunny - This is a good article
http://snakepitusa.com/about-us/catch-wrestling-history/
I actually just finished reading that before I came back to ask. It doesn't say. It says the origins have been lost in history.
Yeah it goes really far back. There are many stories of the origins but nothing can be confirmed.
Perhaps our schools should start incorporating CACC. It's far more relevant today. Especially with the Olympic tendency to fuck over any sport that Americans do very well in. These kids could spend their lives prepping for the Olympics, only to show up and their sport is gone. Catch could give the sport a shot in the arm.
As cool as that would be for a cacc program in schools I don't think it is wise to show hormonal teenagers holds that could potentially cripple and or kill someone.
I think kids who have these activities, training any martial art, tend to be more disciplined and more civilized. Less likely to bully or to be bullied.
JJ in our schools would be great too. IMO.
If it was an elective sport that could work. I was thinking that they would have sub grappling of sorts in gym or something.
Kids with violent behavior would be excluded.
Happiness Bunny -stonepony -Happiness Bunny -stonepony -Happiness Bunny -stonepony -Happiness Bunny - This is a good article
http://snakepitusa.com/about-us/catch-wrestling-history/
I actually just finished reading that before I came back to ask. It doesn't say. It says the origins have been lost in history.
Yeah it goes really far back. There are many stories of the origins but nothing can be confirmed.
Perhaps our schools should start incorporating CACC. It's far more relevant today. Especially with the Olympic tendency to fuck over any sport that Americans do very well in. These kids could spend their lives prepping for the Olympics, only to show up and their sport is gone. Catch could give the sport a shot in the arm.
As cool as that would be for a cacc program in schools I don't think it is wise to show hormonal teenagers holds that could potentially cripple and or kill someone.
I think kids who have these activities, training any martial art, tend to be more disciplined and more civilized. Less likely to bully or to be bullied.
JJ in our schools would be great too. IMO.
If it was an elective sport that could work. I was thinking that they would have sub grappling of sorts in gym or something.
Kids with violent behavior would be excluded.
Would you say Tyson was a kid with violent behavior? Cuss, and boxing, civilized him. Before it, he was mugging old ladies in elevators by blasting their dentures down their throat.
SpartanFightClub -e. kaye -
Pins? I was not talking about pins. Everyone always focuses on pins. Pins are irrelevant.
Pins are an anachronism from a set of rules from days gone by.
I have been taught CACC as a modern fighting/grappling art. No pins. And in CACC the bottom position is called a body scissors.
What??If you're not using pins, then you're not doing cacc my friend.
Saying that pins are irrelevent is about the same thing that saying the guard is irrevelent in bjj...
Pins mean CONTROL, how the hell can you say they are irrelevant?? Seriously?
CACC is WRESTLING + subs, never ever forget that.
Who's you're cacc coach??
Hmmmm, I guess that I have been imagining that I am doing CACC without pins then for years.
Comparing pins to the guard makes no sense, btw.
You can have control without a pin, as defined by the rules.
CACC is wrestling + subs? Gee, no one told me. That's a good one to remember. Duh?
According to you I do not have a CACC coach, since what I am doing is not CACC.
Oups.
e. kaye -SpartanFightClub -e. kaye -
Pins? I was not talking about pins. Everyone always focuses on pins. Pins are irrelevant.
Pins are an anachronism from a set of rules from days gone by.
I have been taught CACC as a modern fighting/grappling art. No pins. And in CACC the bottom position is called a body scissors.
What??If you're not using pins, then you're not doing cacc my friend.
Saying that pins are irrelevent is about the same thing that saying the guard is irrevelent in bjj...
Pins mean CONTROL, how the hell can you say they are irrelevant?? Seriously?
CACC is WRESTLING + subs, never ever forget that.
Who's you're cacc coach??
Hmmmm, I guess that I have been imagining that I am doing CACC without pins then for years.
Comparing pins to the guard makes no sense, btw.
You can have control without a pin, as defined by the rules.
CACC is wrestling + subs? Gee, no one told me. That's a good one to remember. Duh?
According to you I do not have a CACC coach, since what I am doing is not CACC.
Pins is the 'ultimate' control, saying that they are irrelevant is just showing that you dont know what you're talking about, but it's logical, 'cause you dont use them...
cacc is wrestling + subs ( even if you tried to make fun of me, you agreed with that) and wrestling have pins... I dont know what else to say lol!!
You say that you do cacc, but you are missing a big part of the art (pinning).
Like a bjj'er , who's doing bjj without playing guard or a judoka doing tashiwaza only...
Rules makes style, even if you dont agree with that.
You are arguing a point that is really irrelevant. I have no use for pins. PERIOD.
If you learned, as I did CACC as fighting art, then pins are a waste of time.
If you think that learning pins means you learned a more pure form of CACC, then more power to you. I could care less.
And once again, pins and guard work or tachi waza in Judo are not even close to comparable.
You can do CACC without pins. Easy as pie.
You cannot do BJJ without guard or Judo without throws.
Judo has pins too. For competition. U can do Judo without learning the pins. What Judo I learned, I learned to further my fighting ability. I love to throw people. Pin them? What for? Hold them until the cavalry arrives? What if it is their cavalry?
When you learn the Kodokan''s self defense art - Goshin Jitsu - no pins. Make sense yet?
The problem with CACC is it gets confused with other things like shoot wrestling or rough n tumble matches (which were CACC matches with strangles amd punches),or every no gi grappler is a catch wrestler
CACC most certainly has pins, but most people dont train these as wrestling is less of a focus to a lot practitioners who use it as a self defense or MMA system So pins fall to the side.
Lancshire Wrestling where the term "hookers" comes from, is one of the main CACC was derived from. It was extremely brutal, Billy Robinson teaches to grapple with a closed fist because fingers could be grabbed and dislocated, people would hook holds and twist and try to cause damage although there were rules banning the breaking of bones.
American Folk wrestlers like Matt Hughes, Matt Linland, Askren, Weidman, etc who learn BJJ are already a step ahead because they have an edge in body mechanics and just sound grappling principles. Folk has clinch work, takedowns and extensive mat work which all help in MMA.
There are not enough teachers of CACC, people are having more tournaments its slowly gaining steam but its just not looked at as am efficient system for MMA, like BJJ, Hopefully Barnett can keep coaching for a while to spread catch after he retires.
I agree with most of that, except you cannot do CACC without the wrestling. The wrestling is the art.
CACC wrestling is just different that competitive wrestling like Freestyle, etc. There are things that you might do in a competitive match that is just not a good idea in fight or a match with subs.
e. kaye -
I agree with most of that, except you cannot do CACC without the wrestling. The wrestling is the art.
CACC wrestling is just different that competitive wrestling like Freestyle, etc. There are things that you might do in a competitive match that is just not a good idea in fight or a match with subs.
by wrestling I mean the takedowns and pins, as most associate cacc with people just grabbing a submission without control, when control is one of the most important things in cacc, which comes from the wrestling
Silhouette -e. kaye -
I agree with most of that, except you cannot do CACC without the wrestling. The wrestling is the art.
CACC wrestling is just different that competitive wrestling like Freestyle, etc. There are things that you might do in a competitive match that is just not a good idea in fight or a match with subs.
by wrestling I mean the takedowns and pins, as most associate cacc with people just grabbing a submission without control, when control is one of the most important things in cacc, which comes from the wrestling
Correct. I can just live without the pins.
e. kaye -
You are arguing a point that is really irrelevant. I have no use for pins. PERIOD.
If you learned, as I did CACC as fighting art, then pins are a waste of time.
If you think that learning pins means you learned a more pure form of CACC, then more power to you. I could care less.
And once again, pins and guard work or tachi waza in Judo are not even close to comparable.
You can do CACC without pins. Easy as pie.
You cannot do BJJ without guard or Judo without throws.
Judo has pins too. For competition. U can do Judo without learning the pins. What Judo I learned, I learned to further my fighting ability. I love to throw people. Pin them? What for? Hold them until the cavalry arrives? What if it is their cavalry?
When you learn the Kodokan''s self defense art - Goshin Jitsu - no pins. Make sense yet?
No, you dont make sense at all.
There is no 'more pure cacc'. There is cacc and there is not cacc ;-)
'I'm a freestyle wrestler, but i dont use pin' Sounds goofy isnt it?? ;-)
Pins are not a waste of time. They teach ABSOLUTE CONTROL. As a teacher and coach, i realy do see them as a pedagogical tool and i think that it's the part you're missing.
It's not 'cause YOU dont see pins as relevant that they are not, i'm 100% sure that you would be a better grappler if you would explore pins. You would discover new setup for subs or counter to popular bjj position like half guard etc.
Yes you can do cacc without pins, but it's not cacc anymore, like it or not.
You can do judo without newaza, just throwing people around with no follow up to the ground, but, imho, you're missing a big chunk of judo, but i guess, you still can call yourself a judoka.
Make sense yet? ;-)