Eddie - I agree to disagree on this one. Respectfully.
My opinion on the matter comes from my personal experiences training with people of many backgrounds. I've trained with those who have only done no-gi, those who have only done gi, and those who have done both. I got my purple years ago from javi vazquez and he was big on training both, I then trained under leo vieira for a while, he was also big on doing both.
Honestly though, most no-gi only students that I've rolled with get amazed at the effectiveness of strong basics that many gi students obtain through their training. Similarly, many gi only students get amazed at unorthadox technique that many no-gi students learn. Personally, I like the idea of having strong basics and some crazy cool technique on the side.
I do agree with you that a skilled athlete is a skilled athlete. The tennis example is good, but doesn't completely mirror what we're doing here. Perhaps if a tennis player trained raquetball it would be a good way to train his agility and ball awareness.
Eddie, take this with you. Although you find similarities between Judo:Greco and BJJ:no-gi... this doesn't mean that you should draw so many absolutes from them.
as the aussie who got the blue belt in that video, i can say for certain that i like my haircut.
perfect comparison between judo and greco to highlight the difference, i wonder if there is such a debate going on between practitioners of those arts? no, coz whilst they share similarities, they are still different arts.
Where can I buy one?
Well, goddamned if that wasn't one of the most informative and intriguing things I've read on here in a long time.
I read every word of this thread. Now I am going to go chew on it.
I'm still gonna train in my gi becuase the path I have chosen for now includes both gi and no gi training.
But gosh darn it the next guy that triangle's me is gonna get his collar grabbed and jammed across his throat whilst I stack him. Thanks Eddie ;) and congrats again to Dan and all who got promoted.
EddieBravo - My purple belts don't know collar chokes, back of the jacket control, spider guard, and sleeve control/chokes. So my purple belts would not be up to speed with traditional bjj purples IN THE GI.
But my purples know how to set up the truck from side control, which leads you to many submissions, including calf crank, banana split, crouch ripper, scissors, the twister, and the transitioning from the truck to the back. My purples can also transition from the back to the truck.
My purples know lockdown half guard sweeps like the electric chair, stoner control sweep/vaporizor, twist back, etc.
My purples can go thru the main path of the rubber guard with the options as well, including invisible collar, the carni, the croc series, the DA etc.
10th planet jiu jitsu is a different system than traditional bjj.
99% of bjj black belts couldn't teach a 10th Planet seminar, but that doesn't mean that 10th Planet purples are better than bjj purples, it just means they are 2 different styles of strangulation and joint destruction.
Just ask bjj black belts Vinny Magalaes(Royler Gracie), George Sotiropoulos(Machado), Jorge Oliviera(Barra Gracie) and Keith Owen(Pedro Sauer). They are all currently adding the 10thpjj system to their arsenal and are working to get their black belt in the system as well.
BJJ=Judo
10pj=Greco :)
CONGRATS DAN HARDY!!!!
Thanks Eddie this answers my original question. I train in a gi and no gi but if I had a no gi tourney or ever tried to transition into mma there is no question i would ditch the gi and train exlusively in the most realistic and similar form i could to that i was competing in. There is nothing wrong with expanding your game and knowledge and evolving as a grappler. The black belts you listed are far superior to what 99% of people who train will ever become and if they find merit in your system then there is no reason for all the hate.
I'm a 10th Planet purple belt under Eddie, and 10th Planet techniques are a significant part of my game. I'm not just saying this because Eddie promoted me, but because it's been my experience: training in no-gi makes me better in no-gi, and training in the gi makes me better in the gi. My no-gi game is light years ahead of my gi game because I've spent more time without a gi.
I'd never seen Eddie write all of that out. It's a really good explanation.
I wear my BJJ blue belt in competition, and I compete advanced in no-gi. If I were to compete in an IBJJF no-gi event... actually, it wouldn't matter, because for women the blue and purple divisions are combined. But if they weren't, I'd compete as a purple belt. To compete as a blue belt in no-gi wouldn't just be disrespectful towards Eddie; it would be sandbagging.
One thing that I find interesting is that Eddie wants tights and/or Gi pants to be legal in MMA and Sub grappling because of the friction caused by the pants.
Is that not completely contrary to the idea of training No-gi? To rely on your clothes as a crutch?
Also I think it is of the utmost importance to train gi, because people wear jackets and pants on the street! The whole idea of "train like you compete" idea applies to self defense as well. Not just UFC and Sub Grappling tournaments. People from SoCal to Maine wear jackets and pants... why not train for that too?
I think this point is often over looked in these discussions.
All that being said, I think Rubber Guard can be effective.
oh brother
grilla -CRE -
1) Every single UFC Champion has a black belt in the gi besides Brock Lesnar,
1) Wrong!
Why wrong? I'm serious here, I'm running it through my head and I think he's right.
155 - BJ - 100% legit
170 - GSP - Pretty damn sure that he has one....he's my only question
185 - Anderson - 100% Legit
205 - Lyoto - 100% Legit
So does GSP not have a BB in BJJ?
eddie, i really liked what you stated about the similarities between greco/judo and bjj/nogi. ive been thinking the same thing for years. i train in both nogi and gi, because i just like grappling. once i start going, i forget what im wearing, and the techniques just happen. if theirs material to grab and manipulate, i grab for it. if their is no lapel or sleeve, i must then work for underhooks. i dont think 'oh shit, wheres the lapel?". i just work my no gi game. and when its gi i dont think "omg look i can work gi" , i just work my gi game.
eddie you had some great points.
Damian Maia... he would not have the game he has today if he never had a gi.
Marcelo... Roger...Cobrinha.. the list goes on and on... its been proven.. the best and most technical guys HAVE a gi, EDDIE is on that list... deal with it.
bj
silva
fedor
machida
gsp
ALL GI
jkd4200 - Damian Maia... he would not have the game he has today if he never had a gi.
Marcelo... Roger...Cobrinha.. the list goes on and on... its been proven.. the best and most technical guys HAVE a gi, EDDIE is on that list... deal with it.
bj
silva
fedor
machida
gsp
ALL GI
Did you actually read what he wrote? I have actually been trying to figure out if this was a troll post.
Morgz - I read every word of this thread. Now I am going to go chew on it.
I'm still gonna train in my gi becuase the path I have chosen for now includes both gi and no gi training.
But gosh darn it the next guy that triangle's me is gonna get his collar grabbed and jammed across his throat whilst I stack him. Thanks Eddie ;) and congrats again to Dan and all who got promoted.
well i fucking laughed
arent the gi guys teaching moves that dont depend on the gi as much ?
i know we do at torrance and i know javi does.
and congrats on the purple
those of you who train both no gi and gi: have any of you trained strictly no gi for an extended period of time?
checkuroil - those of you who train both no gi and gi: have any of you trained strictly no gi for an extended period of time?
I have not.
Now what's up with all the BOLD on this thread now...anyone else see that?
close your BOLD tag you bastards!!!1
does any of this debate really matter?
can people not just form their own opinions on the gi/no-gi subject, and train accordingly?
my personal opinion is, i dont want to use a gi because i dont want to start relying on handles that i wouldnt have in the octagon.
i think that, the reason many ufc fighters train in a gi, is simply because there are more established bjj schools around. the gi has been popular for longer, therefore, there are more training partners to be found.
Eddie there is sooo much more to the gi/no gi debate than just clinching. There are various aspects of strategy that come into play. When I'm doing gi, I'm worried about so many more attacks coming at me. Without the gi, my mind is freer. Similarly when attacking, I have so many more options with the gi.
All this for me is a big reason why gi grapplers have a lot of success when taking off the gi. Your mind can focus on fewer things and decisions just happen faster. Granted that the clinch is a big part of all this, but it's FAR from the only part.
You're underestimating the advantages one learns from dealing with the complexities of the gi.