some of you aren't paying enough attention to the boxers' feet in these matches.
body moves before feet when hit = being knocked back by a powerful blow.
feet move before body when hit = boxer controlling distance to remove himself from danger.
lol, the amount of DLH hatred here is pretty amusing sometimes
no doubt.
hornbuckle I think that is why I became a fan of his. At one time, I hated him with a passion. My hatred probably peaked when he rematched Chavez. I thought he was just this big guy fighting smaller guys, which up until that point was true, and I was sure he would not fight the fights he should. He said he would and then he did and I gained a respect for him. We always hear about Ray loeonard, Tommy Hearns etc and we shoudl but those guys never fought a stretch of opponents like Whitaker, Quartey, Trinidad and Mosely in an 18 to 24 month period. Oscar has fought all comers and he has had numerous close calls but he has never once been out of a fight. Even vs Sturm in a fight he obviously was not in top shape for, he threw over 750 punches and threw his second highest punch output of his career in round 1. The guy gives it his all every time out and has given us fans some great fights. I can understand why some people dislike him but anyone who does not respect him is not a true boxing fan.
Also, I will not argue with anyone who gave Sturm a decision although I did not, but I can only laugh at people who say he lost 9-3 and things like that. It just destroys any credibility that they may have had. To me, anyone who would have that score is much more of a drunken observer than fight judge.
Kangaroo no offense taken but if you think Roy Jones was pro Oscar, you were not listening very closely.
I admire Oscar, but I thought he clearly lost the fight with Sturm. Sturm landed much cleaner shots and DLH never hurt him at all during the fight.
I think the reason DLH won was because he threw lots of shots and flurries that didn't necessarily land (the head shots I mean) but bounced off Sturm's forearms and gloves.
And yes, at this point I can't see him beating Hopkins at backgammon.
sak if you go back and watch closely, Oscar hit Sturm with a short uppercut towards the end of the 4th and he was hurt. Not badly but it buckled him. Oscar was never really hurt either but it was a close fight and IMO 115-113 for either guy or 114-114 are all solid scores.
"lol, the amount of DLH hatred here is pretty amusing sometimes"
Likewise with the dickriding. And you're the head cheerleader.
Sak is correct 90 percent of ODH's offense was eye catching flurries that hit nothing but arm. If you choose to score that as effective aggression so be it but that's giving Sturm no credit for a tight defense.
**Kangaroo no offense taken but if you think Roy Jones was pro Oscar, you were not listening very closely.**
2 points.
1. You keep bringing up Roy but denying that the ENTIRE 4 man ringside crew scored it for Sturm. And this means something considering how overly pro DLH they have been in his career. And im not talking about Roy, but Lamps, merchant, and Ledderman. Theyve been nothing short of cheerleaders for DLH at times. And they all gave the fight to Sturm emphatically. That says something considering they have every reason to cut for DLH. They are the big losers if he losses a fight. But yet they called it liked the saw it, because in all reality, their was no other view to have about the fight. i applaud them for bucking their best buisness intrests and just being honest about what they saw.
2. I didnt hear any commentary from Roy that would make me think he was anti DLH. he seemed to be calling the fight as he saw it. Sturm won the fight, so obviously if your a DLH fan your going to think he was anti-DLH, but in reality he was just calling the fight as it was happening. and it happened to be that DLH was not fighting impressively. what was roy supposed to do, get out his pom poms and start cheering for him because he's the Golden Boy? DLH looked bad, and was not winning the fight. So of course there wasnt going to be alot of positive things to say about his performance.
I agree with alot of your above documentary on why DLH should be respected. he has fought all comers. he has challenged himself every step of the way. And none of that has anything to do with him losing to Sturm.
Its amazing that some belive if you call the fight for Sturm your immeadiately a DLH hater! No thats called being an impartial judge to the fight, and not letting image and favoritism effect your view of the outcome.
Like i said, everyone knows DLH lost. That why we keep hearing bullshit lines about being haters, talking about roy jones as a commentator etc...
Homie, I really don't think anyone could justify giving Oscar more than 4 rounds. I see this fight much like you saw ODH/Mosley. If you're going to give Oscar the Molsey fight for his use of the jab I think you sure as hell have to give this one to Sturm.
Homie, we've had heated discussions about this before but IMO this fight is another example on why Compubox stats are by no means the be all and end all. Most of Oscar's "power punches" hit nothing but arm but he got credit for landing way more power shots than Sturm. Nothing against Genaro Hernandez & Bob Cannobio because that has to be a tough job.
me saying that the fight could have gone either way, and that i wouldn't have argued with anyone who scored it to Sturm by a point makes me the head cheerleader for DLH?
seriously, i thought some of the people on the Holyground were mindless fanatics, but you guys are funny
Kangaroo here is my problem with your logic and why I think you are being hypocritical calling HBO biased towards Oscar when you are clearly biased against him. When HBO scores it for Oscar they are pro Oscar. Yet, when they go against him, they are just being honest. Which is it? Merchant said "Sturm got no loess than a draw". He sure did not see it as clearly as you. Lederman had the fight 7-5 and said there were many close rounds which is correct. Maybe we just disagree on the definition of emphatic. I thought Oscar won round 12 but it is debatable for sure. Here is a Roy Jones quote for you: "Fuck Oscar, I will whip 3 mother fuckers like that in one night". Trust me, as a huge Roy Jones fan, he is no fan of Oscar. Also, what does thesxe four guys get out of Oscar winning? Is HBO gonna quit making fights? They all have contracts and they get the same whether he wins or loses. Please tell me what interest they have.
Also, if you check your history, Lederman has scored against Oscar a few times. He had Pernell beating him. He had Mosely beating him the first fight and he had the Tito fight a draw. I cannot remember hsi scoring of Quartey. Lampley was practicallycheering for Oscar vs Pernell (IMO that was Lampley at his very worst and I love Lamps) but Lederman had his own score.
The fcat is Vegas has been extremely consistent when judging Oscar's fights. Every big fight when he was more the aggressor, he has gotten the W. In every big fight when he was not, he has lost. Just think about it.
Gator I forgot to answer your question. I gave Oscar rounds 1-5 and 8 and 12. Round 8 is the easiest round to score IMO as Sturm took the round off somewhat. It was the lowest or close to the lowest punch output of the fight for Sturm and Oscar threw and landed more in the round. Round 10 was very close and could go either way.
This fight was somewhat similar to Oscar Mosely 2 but nowhere as clear. Oscar landed over 100 more jabs in that fight than Shane according to punchstats and landed more power shots than Shane according to punchstat. He landed an overall 100 more punches than Shane. You cannot compare the two fights IMO. Oscar was throwing combinations when he came forward and Shane threw one shot at a time, many with his eyes closed.
Let me be clear on my take on punchstats. They are a small part of the equation. Hater makes an excellent point about shots being blocked, which Sturm IMO did a good job at. I think punches thrown are far more accurate than punches landed. I think too many people are now using punchstats as evidence and not as a part of an overall equation. I think Oscar Shane 2 was much closer than compubox #'s show although I thought Oscar was clearly the better fighter that night.
I think a lot of people are forgetting the body work that DLHO did. Sturm seemed to slow down as the fight went on and I think his body shots had a lot to do with it. Yes, he was blocking a lot of the head shots, but a lot of the body shots were getting through (and we always hear people complaining that judges don't look enough at bodywork)
I had it 115-113 Sturm, same as Lederman, but with different rounds, so I can see how it can go either way.
LOL at gator making up quotes. He scored it much differently than you did Gator and lampley was not even keeping a scorecard. You cannot watch a fight without scoring it round by round and say who won, especially in a close fight. That is ridiculous. Also, my opinion has nothing to do with lampley's opinion. I can make my own regardless of what he says. You should try it sometime.
BTW Lamps had Oscar beating Pernell and I disagreed as did you. Are you going to change your mind? You said Mosely won the rematch as well. So in two of 3 Oscar fights you disagree with Lamps but the one you agree on you use it as evidence. The only way you could score that fight 9-3 is to hate Oscar as you do and that is fine by me. We all have a right to our opinions and it is a subjective sport.
***Also, if you check your history, Lederman has scored against Oscar a few times. He had Pernell beating him. He had Mosely beating him the first fight and he had the Tito fight a draw***
Iwan, Oscar lost those fights! Of course he had oscar behind on points. Just like he did for the Sturm fight. He lost all of those fights!
Personally i dont care what Jones says. Ledderman screamed at the end of the fight that Sturm won. Hence me saying he was pretty emphatic about the outcome. Merchant said Sturm deserved no less then a draw. Which doesnt mean it could go either way. Lampley agreed that Sturm won the fight. So even if we agree Jones opinion doesnt count, then its still 3-0 for Sturm in a pro DLH ringside team.
And quit saying im anti DLH. I think DLH won the second Mosely fight. Otherwise the fact i think he's gotten Golden Boy decisions against Pernell, Quartey, and Sturm is not me hating him, but calling it as i see it. If i was anti DLH then i would just agree with the second Mosely decision, which i do not.
Its not odd at all to see you back DLH here. I didnt expect you to judge the fight any other way then you did.
But back in reality DLH got worked over that entire fight and besides a handful of passionate DLH fans, everyone agrees on that. But ill at least take solace that your saying it could have gone either way. Which for a DLH fan is about as much as you can expect them budge on this issue.
Homie I am sorry. I wrote "jabs" instead of "punches". The actual #'s are that Oscar threw 120 more punches, landed 73 more jabs and landed 21 more power shots for a total of 94 more punches landed. Remember, much of the statistical edge was established early in the fight and fights are scored round by round.You can go to compuboxonline.com and click on stats and look to the right and it has many fight stats archived.
LOL Gator. That was pretty good. Maybe now you can tell me more about how Hamed is better than Salvador sanchez again. I always loved that story from you. Newsflash: Gator had Hamed 9-3 over MAB.
Lederman had ODH beating Whitaker 115-113 I believe. That was
robbery! Considering Whitaker was the Champion, and scored a
knockdown.
I would like to see the score cards for the Quartey fight. I just
remember having Ike well ahead (more then 3 rounds ahead) going in
to the last round.
Maybe to help ease the minds of people we should change ODH record.
Give him the win in the second Mosley fight, but give him the loss in
the Whitaker and Strum fights. =p
Conan you have to give him the W in the Tito fight IMO. Of all the decisions other than Mosely 2, Tito was the worse IMO. Mosely 2 was just pathetic I thought. I thought Pea won vs Oscar but I also though the knockdown was a bad call and I did not give an extra point for it.