Chael has won some and lost some, but his fights are pretty exciting all around. I don't much enjoy the takedown->ground and pound/neutralize opponent style, but Chael makes it crowd pleasing somehow, and thats what sells fights. But if it doesn't make sense to you that his fights are boring as hell. Then I'll go from your example. Say the Spurs wanted to play in the championship, but refused to play in their semifinal matchup because the guys on the team like each other. What would they do then?
Fact is, this sport is different than all the rest. This is still a relatively small sport if you think about it, and with "matches" for fighters happening every few months as opposed to every few days, the UFC needs to build stars to market. Jon Fitch is damn good, gets the W almost every time, but theres a reason that you hear groans at the bar when his name pops up to fight next. If he wants that belt, he needs to change that in any way he can, if he doesn't, then he doesn't want it bad enough.
The bottom line is the UFC has to sell tickets and advertising. If fans are bored and not entertained, then ratings will suffer. These fighters are paid because ticket sales, ppv sales, and advertising purchased. Everybody's comparison to other mainstream sports are ludicrous. MLB, NFL, and NBA are already well entrenched and have HUGE established fanbases. Fitch, and Shields for that matter as champions would be terrible for the UFC. They have to realize their paycheck might be written by Zuffa, but their money really comes from fans who buy tickets because they anticipate being entertained.
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Carlito Brigante -Brose Aldo - Chael has won some and lost some, but his fights are pretty exciting all around. I don't much enjoy the takedown->ground and pound/neutralize opponent style, but Chael makes it crowd pleasing somehow, and thats what sells fights. But if it doesn't make sense to you that his fights are boring as hell. Then I'll go from your example. Say the Spurs wanted to play in the championship, but refused to play in their semifinal matchup because the guys on the team like each other. What would they do then?
Fact is, this sport is different than all the rest. This is still a relatively small sport if you think about it, and with "matches" for fighters happening every few months as opposed to every few days, the UFC needs to build stars to market. Jon Fitch is damn good, gets the W almost every time, but theres a reason that you hear groans at the bar when his name pops up to fight next. If he wants that belt, he needs to change that in any way he can, if he doesn't, then he doesn't want it bad enough.
If both finalists refused to play eeachother, they would be sued for breach of contract. Fitch is not contracted to fight his teammates.
People at the bar groan because they've never trained and do not understand the nuances of the ground game and only enjoy fights where guys stand n wang.
Ive watched ufc events at my gym with the other students and not one single person groaned, i wonder why?
You know people have incredibly irrational hate for jon fitch when these guys say he lay n prayed bj penn in the 3rd round. You know that 3rd round where he set a record for strikes landed, busting up the leather faced bj penn worse then anyone had to date? That round was more exciting then anything chael has done in his entire ufc career besides screaming n pain and fake tapping.
Well guess what? Out of the hundreds of thousands of people that purchase the UFC ppvs, there is a very small percentage that has an intimate knowledge of the ground game. If you only want those people that have this knowledge to purchase the ppv's, then you also wish that the UFC goes bankrupt because there aren't enough of them to support it. The fights have to be entertaining to the vast majority of mma uneducated fans.
I appreciate all aspects of fighting, but in case you haven't noticed most people don't train. The UFC's goal is to try to educate these people, but in order to educate them, they've gotta be interested.
Until Jon appeals to the uneducated crowd somehow, he'll be silently knocking off contenders (or Jonny Hendricks) and whining about not getting a shot.
And not to argue the 3rd round LnP comment, but I'm pretty sure Chael is one of the most exciting fighters in the UFC. He creates hype, and his fight with Marquardt was more exciting than anything Fitch has ever done. Little off subject, but yeah.
I don't care for chael, but you have to admit even if you are of the opinion that he is as boring as fitch, that he does a much better job hyping fights and marketing himself.
Carlito Brigante - Maybe fitch needs to start talking shit like chael sonnen if he wants a title shot. Fitch has finished 3 times as many fights under the zuffa promotion then chael has, he is also 14-1 in the ufc compared to chaels 5-4 record. But then again, ufc treats this more like pro wrestling then a legit sporting competition and the middlweight division is significantly weaker then welterweight.
1. Fitch hasn't finished a fight since 2007, Sonnen finished one about a month ago...
2. while Sonnen gets caught in a triangle about every 3rd fight, it's partially due to a more aggressive fighting style than Fitch's.
BshMstr -Carlito Brigante - Maybe fitch needs to start talking shit like chael sonnen if he wants a title shot. Fitch has finished 3 times as many fights under the zuffa promotion then chael has, he is also 14-1 in the ufc compared to chaels 5-4 record. But then again, ufc treats this more like pro wrestling then a legit sporting competition and the middlweight division is significantly weaker then welterweight.
1. Fitch hasn't finished a fight since 2007, Sonnen finished one about a month ago...
2. while Sonnen gets caught in a triangle about every 3rd fight, it's partially due to a more aggressive fighting style than Fitch's.
This. 
Fitch is, in my opinion, an anti-MMA fighter. What I mean is, when you watch GSP fight, or even the recent Shogun-Hendo bout, there's an air of mystery going into the fight. Who would have thought that Hendo would get the better of Shogun in the standup, while Shogun dominated Hendo in the grappling department. Who would have thought GSP would get TKOd by Serra. When you watch most fighters, anything could happen, Anderson Silva could get dominated and pull off a submission off his back. When you watch Jon Fitch he gets a takedown with 4 minutes left in the round, uses his excellent base not to get swept, doesn't advance position, remains just active enough not to get stood up, and that's the round. The only questions proceeding Fitch fights are 'Will Fitch get finished?' or 'Will Fitch win a decision?'
Fuck I'm dangerously close to fighter bashing.
Even though I go to Purdue, I have no respect for fitch's fights. When I saw him fight bj and BWW earlier this year it didn't seem like anyone cared that he was an alum at their school, this is because he's boring as hell. To the people that say that this would be unacceptable in other sports, quit choosing retarded example. MMA is nothing like other mainstream sports. If an entire team ran out the clock every time they played and didn't try to score very often people wouldn't be watching them play and that city wouldn't be able to keep a team(not to mention that would be an ineffective strategy in other sports).
Carlito Brigante -CindyO -Carlito Brigante -CindyO -Carlito Brigante - fitch is one of my favorite fighers to watch.
As a grappler, i admire and try to emulate the way he combines his wrestling, jiu jitsu and ground n pound. Ofcourse if your idea of training is the ufc video game, you wont understand the small nuances fitch brings to every fight, but i dont give a fuck about the opinion of the uneducated.
We all know these uneducated people, you see wildly irrational statements like he lay n prayed bj penn in the 3rd round, blanketed him. I dont know about you guys but ive never had a blanked punch me the face 200 times in 5 minutes. Where do you buy one of those? Those blankets could be a huge hit on the police force. There is some real coin to be made.
Im also not one of these unrealistic people that thinks every fight should be an action movie. The ironing is also strong if you think about fitch most likely gave gsp his most exciting fight in a long fucking time.
Fitch if you're reading this brotha, dont ever change your style. <b>The objective of a sport is to win at all costs. </b>You dont see football teams throwing hail marys all game because some fat tard on their couch doesnt like the running game. Not every basket is an alley oop, not every goal in soccer is a bicycle kick.
I guess thats what you get when the majority of the fanbase are not fans of other sports, they dont understand the concept of sporting. I guess if you come from wwe to mma, you are going to boo the shit out of everyone that isnt nam phan vs leonard garcia'ing.
OH well, such is life, i guess.
Exactly... like fighting other contenders such as Kos & Swick (since his boss seems to want to make such fights) ... or did you really NOT mean at ALL costs? Should he NOT have to make it thru these legit contenders in order to get a title shot?
Cindy
Are you saying this because dana is your boss and you get paid to share the same opinion with him, or do you really think the entire camp should be split up so they can fight? Whos going to corner who? Where is either guy going to train? Whats it going to be like coming back to gym after say a brutal knockout loss to your good friend and long time training partner? This is not tennis, its a combat sport.
- carlito
LOL@ DW being my boss. I don't work for Zuffa.
But in other words, you didn't mean at ALL COSTS. Gotcha;)
Cindy
hey cindy, ive been around here plenty long enough to know about your relationship with dee-dub.
I said WIN at all costs. I didnt mention anything about getting a title shot at all costs.
do you mind touching on this part of my post...
"do you really think the entire camp should be split up so they can fight? Whos going to corner who? Where is either guy going to train? Whats it going to be like coming back to gym after say a brutal knockout loss to your good friend and long time training partner?"
Since this thread is about Fitch whining because he can't get a title shot I assumed you were talking about, you know... why he can't get one. Winning one at ALL COSTS would mean fighting the contenders- a couple of his teammates that he doesn't want to face, no?
IMO, teams should be divided for training purposes. Work out gym hours like they do on TUF. No reason trainers can't be shared unless they're unprofessional (give info about opponent) and/or simply can't stay neutral (really want a certain guy to win). I get the thing about not wanting to fight a friend but these are professional athletes and this is professional competition. They're supposed to be professional about it. Someone has to be number ONE and they all aspire to be that guy... as long as they don't have to test themselves against their friends and teammates.
As a fan, screw all of this friendship/teammate crap (just glad its not me in their spot). Why on Earth any team would still be recruiting/accepting new talent w/o making it clear you will probably have to fight a peer you'll be training with on a daily basis one night in a sold out arena with half a million folks watching from home. Not only that, you'll have to show up at the gym Monday morning and help train this guy to face the champ- the man you'd be getting to fight had you won. Then ask them how the feel about the scenario. It's ugly as hell but it needs to be done in order to avoid this BS.
Fitch just needs to get his hush on about why he isn't getting a title shot until he is willing to do the work to earn it- which means facing other top contenders he happens to train with. Or he can move up a weight class NOW and start working towards contender status in that division... unless he has a buddy there, too, right?
Many say they are like real brothers. I don't personally know of a single kid that didn't physically fight with a sibling growing up. I can think of no one that had negative lasting residual effects from being the loser (or winner). I bet if DW offered the winner of a Kos VS Fitch type bout a one million dollar bonus they'd be willing to beat the shit out of each other;) People tend not to be as civilized when it comes to big money. One of them would be in real good shape financially and professionally within 15 minutes. The other would no doubt make out well financially and would be respected for being the warrior they are for leaving it all inside the cage (lol@ this commercial sounding stuff coming outta my tips, but I really mean it=) !
Add Scott Smith and Pete Sell to the list of good friends who fought each other... and that, IMO, was one of the best fights ever had inside the Octagon. That fight was pure madness!
Cindy
Carlito Brigante -slimline - I get that they are friends but how often do we see friends fight in the UFC... Barry v crocop. Bj v Diaz and they are just some recent ones. And yes they might not be as close or have as much history but at this level of the game sacrifices have to be made!
Barry and cro cop were not friends before they fought and never trained before that either, let alone everyday for the better part of a decade. BJ brought nick and nate in for one camp, its not like they trained together everyday for almost a decade. Can you think of anyone who have trained together from the start of their careers, basically building a career from scratch, that have gone onto to fight eachother and remained tight aftewards?
Shogun and wand will never fight eachother. Leonard garcia and cowboy cerrone will never fight eachother. keith jardine and rashad evans will never fight eachother. bustamante and mario sperry will never fight eachother. No loud mouthed uncle fester looking promoter will change that, nor will some whiny fans.
I can't wait til Lorenzo tests one of these scenarios and then kicks someone to the curb like he said he would for not fighting a teammate if its a fight that makes sense and the fans want to see it. If you're not there to be the best you can be and face ALL competitors in your division then you're doing nothing but taking up space better suited for someone with higher goals. Doesn't mean their not really cool and great guys- just means they're on the wrong MMA stage. Thankfully, there are others to fight for.
Cindy
BshMstr -Carlito Brigante -slimline - I get that they are friends but how often do we see friends fight in the UFC... Barry v crocop. Bj v Diaz and they are just some recent ones. And yes they might not be as close or have as much history but at this level of the game sacrifices have to be made!
Barry and cro cop were not friends before they fought and never trained before that either, let alone everyday for the better part of a decade. BJ brought nick and nate in for one camp, its not like they trained together everyday for almost a decade. Can you think of anyone who have trained together from the start of their careers, basically building a career from scratch, that have gone onto to fight eachother and remained tight aftewards?
Shogun and wand will never fight eachother. Leonard garcia and cowboy cerrone will never fight eachother. keith jardine and rashad evans will never fight eachother. bustamante and mario sperry will never fight eachother. No loud mouthed uncle fester looking promoter will change that, nor will some whiny fans.
i respect these guys' decisions not to fight training partners, but at the same time they need to realize if they want the belt, then they have to defeat all comers at that weight class. what if Fitch beat GSP, and refused to fight Kos or Swick? goodbye belt...
Bingo!
Cindy
Knuckle Punch - First off im not a Fitch fan. I do respect him though and would be happy to see him put on a show but I think he won't get a shot until he shows he fucking wants it. Just saying you want something isn't enough now days. Talk some shit, pick a fight, destroy someone. Be willing to fight anyone including your friends. Start fucking screaming instead of whimpering in the background. Make me want to watch you fucking throw down, win or lose make me a fan. Until your prepared to fight anyone (Josh) no one will ever believe how bad you truly want it.
slow golf clap Dayum!!! This!
Cindy
RickMartelsArrogance -CindyO -
Add Scott Smith and Pete Sell to the list of good friends who fought each other... and that, IMO, was one of the best fights ever had inside the Octagon. That fight was pure madness!
Cindy
Why do you always pretend like friends fighting friends is no big deal? Not only are the guys very close friends, they're training partners and both share the SAME TRAINING STAFF AND SPARRING PARTNERS.
This isn't like two bros from the TUF house who live 3000 miles apart from eachother fighting, they're fucking TEAM MATES. Forcing team mates to fight is a very shitty thing to do because you also force them to divide their training, their sparring partners, their coaches/trainers, and their entire fucking gym.
People like DFW and you refuse to even acknowledge this fact much less accept it. Unless Zuffa is willing to buy Kos a new training staff and fly in sparring partners for him on their dime, acting like him fighting Fitch is no big deal is fucking abhorrent and flat out disgusting.
I simply refuse to believe you're that clueless as you've proven time and time again to know A LOT about this sport, Cindy.
I'm sorry but that's how I feel. I felt that way lllllong before Lorenzo made his comment to the media. I like tournament fighting for the same reason- a group of guys show up to compete against each other for ONE prize. They don't know who they'll draw. Could be a friend that eliminates them or maybe you never have to face a friend at all. But one thing is clear- they ALL want to win and will face whomever they have to in order to get the prize. Guess I'm old school.
I don't compete and I'm a girl so I don't come from the same place you do. While I know it would be hard to fight a friend I don't believe it's the end of the world and should end a friendship when you're both in the same sport and facing off could be part of reaching your goals. You're there for the same reason and there's only one prize.
Why should Fitch get a title shot if he's not willing to face the top contenders in order to earn it? Just tell me that because I don't care if they ever fight each other, but Fitch using friendship as an excuse to bypass top competition in order to EARN a title shot doesn't fly. It makes no sense that he actually thinks this is OK. He can stay a gatekeeper, IMO. Don't be mad at me for it;)
Cindy
^ how in the hell is Fitch a gatekeeper? That seems like a gate that only GSP could get thru...
Reasonable Discourse - Man, id be pissed if I was Fitch too. Never win any FOTN,KOOTN, SOTN bonuses. No fanbase. Yet win unappealing UD's all the time.
And don't give me that "you just dont understand the intricacies of grappling".....
I watch D1 wrestling & im glued to the screen, I watch ADCC and im enthralled, I watch Fitch and Im disappointed.
Fucking THIS! Don't give me the "you don't appreciate the sport" bullshit, I just don't appreciate being put to fucking sleep. It's not that I can't appreciate Fitch's great base, or ability to hold someone up against the cage working to try and take their back. But when it really boils down to it, I believe (remember, this is just an opinion) that if he really is good enough to dominate someone that bad...why don't you...I dunno, actually dominate them that bad? I think I'm so unimpressed by his ability to use his advantage to go for the kill (and finish a fight) than I am impressed with his ability to control the fight.
I think the Chael example is actually a good one, very similar skill set, more losses, but has his losses because he's willing to go for the finish. And guess what? He get's title shots. I'm not ignoring the trash talk. I don't think it'd hurt Fitch to actually call someone out (too bad the guy he should call out is the one guy he WON'T fight). But I'll watch Chael over Fitch any day of the week.
Splitting up training partners and whatnot is a bitch for sure, but more important I think is the fight itself.
You have to be a ruthless motherfucker in there, are you really going to be able to put maximum ferocity and emotion on one of your closest friends?
I mean really fucking torque that arm when it needs that last twist to make it pop?
Crush that one last uppercut into his chin when he is wobbling already?
If I were in there, I would have no problem trying to end the life of someone trying to do the same for me, all in the name of the spectacle.
But not one of my REAL friends, no fucking way. It just throws a monkey wrench into the works, and the fans get a watered down version of the fighters when good friends fight each other.
Then again I can't remember the last time Jon has actually found himself in the position of handing out any major damage of any kind, so I think he should fight Kos actually, seeing as there is basically zero chance of Kos being harmed.
Fitch should not have to fight Kos. There are too many other good fights at 170 to put these two together unless a title is at stake.
stevekt - Fitch should not have to fight Kos. There are too many other good fights at 170 to put these two together unless a title is at stake.
but this is a problem...Fitch is #2, Kos is #4. Diaz is #3, Shields is #6. at some point, the teammates will have to fight, due to their rankings (unless they drop out of the top 10).....