ummm does anderson finish rate have anything... anything at all to due with the fact he fights in the worst division??
hmmmmmmmmm let me think
Daverr -
and ill spell it out for you so you undestand..
Anderson natural weight allows him to easily go for 205 to 185
where as gsp would have to do major changes to either stay at mw,
cause he cant do it healthy with his weight now..
got it
Yeah, a guy who is 192/3 in the cage cannot "safely" fight at 185....okay pal.
Just like Anderson does at 205, GSP would just have to rely on his SKILLS to overcome the weight disadvantage.
Forrest/Irvin/Bonnar all had at least 10 pounds on Anderson, possibly up to 20 in Forrest's and Bonnar's case.
The only major differnce in their weights is that Anderson puts on FAT and retains excess water weight when not in camp, and GSP stays lean and follows strict diets all year round.
GSP cuts a hiugher % of weight. 192/3 in the cage vs Anderson in the weight class 15 pounds up fighting at 198. DERP
Daverr -
ummm does anderson finish rate have anything... anything at all to due with the fact he fights in the worst division??
hmmmmmmmmm let me think
You were throwing out tidbits about their number of losses....
What the fuck are you even trying to argue now? That had nothing to do with divisions, yet you blurted it out. So I blurted out some other "tidbits"...GSP finishes at 39 fucking % in the UFC, Anderson doubles that and does it in two divisions...
so gsp is gonna take a fight at mw just to make you happy?
dude, get real..
and talk his weight all you want... I have watched and been a huge gsp fan for years.. His natural walking weight b4 he "tried to put on muscle mass" was ALWAYS ALWAYS 185 to 186 lbs in every interveiw he did.. so this 193 crap is BS.. that was when he went on to try and put on muscle..
Either friggin way 190 issnt a big WW is the ufc these days, not at all. When anderson like i said hs the weight and frame to fight at both classes,
but yet will not fight any1 good.. he takes a fight at 205 with bonnar to "save the show"
lol, really, cause i dont by it.. I think its because he wants a easy fight.
yea, i said it
Sofa King Cool -Goderson Silva -crossfire - And the fact that the ww division got more talent...
Explain this please.... I always hear it but never get a explanation.Well, considering your SN, you probably never will get it.
But if you think Leites, Cote, Irvin, Marquardt, Leben, Sonnen, Maia, Bonnar, Griffin, Belfort, Okami and Lutter...
Oh fuck it. Nevermind.
I know p4p is a stupid and relative term, but still, when you're on p4p lists on major mma websites, its an indication that you're tearing shit up at the moment.
Well, lets take a look at some of GSP's victories, and try to remember how his opponents were AT THE TIME of fighting him.
GSP vs
Matt Hughes II/III,
BJPenn I/II,
Fitch,
Alves,
Shields,
And try to remember the tear Fitch, Alves and Shields were on as well as the respect they were getting.
Also kind of badass he took out prime Karo, Kos and Sherk -- who at that time I think had only ever lost to Hughes, so maybe I should have him in the above list.
But even without those three, that's at least 7 fights with people who were getting consistently ranked in top 10 p4p lists.
UGCTT_LnPninja -Daverr -
ummm does anderson finish rate have anything... anything at all to due with the fact he fights in the worst division??
hmmmmmmmmm let me think
You were throwing out tidbits about their number of losses....
What the fuck are you even trying to argue now? That had nothing to do with divisions, yet you blurted it out. So I blurted out some other "tidbits"...GSP finishes at 39 fucking % in the UFC, Anderson doubles that and does it in two divisions...
if gsp's division was the craps like anderson you ca bet he would finish more,
still, gsp kills every1 bad, royal beatings... no dancing around like AS..
More importantly than that, I've always been impressed with the variety of fighters GSP has dismantled. Destroyed MT wrecking machines like Alves, BJJ wizards like Penn or Shields, wrestling grinders like Hughes or Fitch. He's just so damn well rounded.
And I prefer he doesn't do the JJ or Fedor thing of attacking their strong points then altering his game. Maybe it's just me, but I'm always amazed to see a fighter who such a student of the game, that he can just impose the type of fight he wants on whoever he fights. I miss the old GSP's riddim, but I can't pretend it's not incredible that he can force the fight wherever he wants and against whoever he wants.
You're a wrestler or BJJ fighter, let's stand. You're a striker, lets grind. Better yet, I'll mash you up on the ground so badly, I can then box you and embarass you cus you're face is a pulp and you're afraid I'll drag you down again lol
Print - I don't really see how jumping weight and besting a mid tier mw would strengthen GSP's career, there are currently enough great fighters in his weight class to challenge him
If you don't think beating a Top 5 and former champion at 185 would boost GSP's legacy I don;t know what to tell you. There isn't one in reality because Anderson has had the belt for so long, but ti would be comparable to Sonnen or Franklin of 4-5 years ago if we needed a name. That surely would make a statemenet and boost GSP's legacy in my eyes.
The Irvin and Bonnar fights are on short notice to help out, and multiple 205ers turned down the Irvin fight before they found James to step up.
yea all this everyone wont fight anderson..
my ass, why didnt they get rashad.. he said he would fight him a while back..
why not a actual challenge?
Daverr -
so gsp is gonna take a fight at mw just to make you happy?
dude, get real..
and talk his weight all you want... I have watched and been a huge gsp fan for years.. His natural walking weight b4 he "tried to put on muscle mass" was ALWAYS ALWAYS 185 to 186 lbs in every interveiw he did.. so this 193 crap is BS.. that was when he went on to try and put on muscle..
Either friggin way 190 issnt a big WW is the ufc these days, not at all. When anderson like i said hs the weight and frame to fight at both classes,
but yet will not fight any1 good.. he takes a fight at 205 with bonnar to "save the show"
lol, really, cause i dont by it.. I think its because he wants a easy fight.
yea, i said it
GSP's last 3-4 fights have all been 190+ according to him and Firaz, so that is what is reasonable to use as his CURRENT weight.
190-193 vs 198-203 for Anderson
Yet they fight in divisions that are 15 pounds apart. Just common math skills prove that GSP is cutting more literally and as a % of his body mass.
LMFAO@ 'won't take a fight with anyone good at 205" you do realize that Anderson told Dana he would fight ANYONE at 205 to save the card except Jon Jones and his teammates? You do realize that for Irvin and Forrest multiple 205ers REFUSED to fight Anderson right?
I remember now why you were one of only 3 posters I have on ignore. Back you go. There really is no reason to read any of your garbage posts. You cannot be objective, and clearly ignore facts and reality because you love GSP and don't like Anderson. Enjoy your delusion.
Warzone209 -UGCTT_LnPninja -Sofa King Cool -Goderson Silva -crossfire - And the fact that the ww division got more talent...
Explain this please.... I always hear it but never get a explanation.Well, considering your SN, you probably never will get it.
But if you think Leites, Cote, Irvin, Marquardt, Leben, Sonnen, Maia, Bonnar, Griffin, Belfort, Okami and Lutter...
Oh fuck it. Nevermind.
Here are the 2 problems with you list when comparing to GSP:
1. You cannot even mention Lutter, as the "Lutter" of GSP's career BEAT HIM sucka. ;)
2. You also cannot bring up Irvin,Forrest or Bonnar as those are fighters from a weight class ABOVE his own, and GSP has NEVER stepped up and faced anyone from MW. ;)
Thanks for playing.
What about Anderson Silva not only losing but tapping for dear life against 2 unheard of jap cans - Takase and chonan...All this thread will make you see is JBJ is the real true goat wake me when he's losing to cans.
If you think Chonan and Takase are unheard of Jap Cans then you clearly are a n00b. Chonan was in almost every reputable top 10 ranking of the 183-5 division at the time they fought. Takase was a good mid tier fighter who has wins over other good fighters of that era like Newton, but he was certainly not the best fo the best.
k bud,
ignore me all you want,
you on your period bro?
plenty of people see my side,
and its not hard to see.
GSP doesnt have 4 losses to cans.. nor does he disrespect his opponents and fans by dancing around like a fool, and you certainly wont see him fighting guys that are washed up..
but if thats how you like em,
great on you
Daverr -
k bud,
ignore me all you want,
you on your period bro?
plenty of people see my side,
and its not hard to see.
GSP doesnt have 4 losses to cans.. nor does he disrespect his opponents and fans by dancing around like a fool, and you certainly wont see him fighting guys that are washed up..
but if thats how you like em,
great on you
Anderson doesn't have 4 losses to cans either....are you confused?
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -NastyNate420 -Goderson Silva - GSP, Fedor, Anderson are the GOATS leave it at that whichever one you think is just think it it's hard to change someones mind on who is the greatest and who isn't lol
Very true, very true. I'd also put Hendo in there, but that's my personal opinion, which is exactly what p4p is, a personal opinion. I was just trying to make an argument, I do think Andy has it now, but GSP has a great chance of taking over in the years to come.I don't really get Hendo in the goat conversation personally. His record would look a lot different if he didn't win a bunch of generous decisions.
He had pretty definitive losses to guys like Shields, Lil Nog and Misaki in his prime. Silva beat him pretty bad. And his best wins are against guys I believe were past their prime and not the best in their division at the time he beat them.
Obviously I'm nitpicking, he is a legend and definite hall of famer when a real hof exists, I just don't see his career being on the level of guys like Silva, GSP, Fedor, Penn, Hughes, Big Nog, etc.
Hendo beat Carlos Newton for the UFC tournament win when Newton was a wizzard. That was a huge win both for the stakes as well as because of the level of opponent.
Hendo beat Minotauro 1 short year prior to Mino knocking off Mark Coleman for the Pride HW championship
Hendo beat Murillo Bustamonte when everyone considered Busta one of the very best in the world in his weight class. And he not only beat him, he stopped him. Then he beat him again in the rematch.
Hendo KOd Wand when no other light heavyweight had been able to do it in 9 years, (Vitor Belfort)
Hendo KOs Fedor in one of the most anticipated match ups in recent MMA history. And this while barely making the heavyweight minimum. He oges out there and exchanges bombs with Emelianenko. No tactics, just fighting head up.
Now lets throw in world titles at middle weight and light heavyweight across 3 different major organizations.
Throw in wins over what many consider the top 2 heavyweights of all time, Mino and Fedor.
Hendo never played it safe like is so popular to day by many of the champions, including one who is in regular discussions for GOAT and his record paid for it with decision losses here and there. But make no mistake, Hendo not only beat, he stopped some of the greats.
Print I was talking about their ranking and rich being a former champion. Not their styles. Gap struggles to beat Alan Belcher. Is that better? 
GSP not gap...
Thiaguy -NastyNate420 -Thiaguy -NastyNate420 -Thiaguy -NastyNate420 -Goderson Silva - GSP, Fedor, Anderson are the GOATS leave it at that whichever one you think is just think it it's hard to change someones mind on who is the greatest and who isn't lol
Very true, very true. I'd also put Hendo in there, but that's my personal opinion, which is exactly what p4p is, a personal opinion. I was just trying to make an argument, I do think Andy has it now, but GSP has a great chance of taking over in the years to come.
Pound for pound is such non sense
At least when talking about GOAT, you are working with actualitys etc
Yeah, but when I say GOAT, I meant greatest p4p of all time, sorry, should have clarified that. There are no guidelines or rules to qualify who is the GOAT or who is the p4p best, it's all speculation.
I don't think you understood me
When I say that's it's easier to talk about who is GOAT,
It's because there are actual records and results you can look at to determine the best etc
Where as pound for pound is just non sense.
But yeah, it is all speculation at the end of the day
And pound for pound GOAT is even more non sense IMO
But I will contribute to the thread
IMO it's between Gsp/Fedor/Anderson.
I would lean toward Fedor. The skill set he displayed for a HW was bananas
Even today, there are no current HWs, besides Santos/Cain, that have impressed me as much as Fedor use to etc
I have yet to see any current HWs with the skills Fedor had, being as effective as Fedor was etc
Fedor's skills were impeccable, and if you take into account that he wasn't the strongest or biggest dude out there, it makes you appreciate what he did even more. When he stood whit Cro Cop I thought he was going to get demolished, but out struck him. When it comes to GOAT, I guess we're going to have to wait until Silva, GSP and JBJ are retired before we can make an actual decision. By then, who knows what new talent we'll be talking about taking it though.
What really sets Fedor apart IMO is that Fedor would attack his opponents strengths, and beat them at their own game etc
It was incredible. He was always fearless.
Then again that is probably what cost him the Werdum fight etc
But you still have to give credit for what Fedor had already accomplished
Fedor is the greatest of all time IMO
Also, I don't get the GOAT talks for Jones. People just love to jump on the bandwagon early I guess. Every fighter is the GOAT after an impressive win etc. I think Shogun still has a better resume then Jones does, and is still the LHW GOAT over Jones etc
I mean, look at it their resumes
Shogun has wins over Rampage and Machida too
But the thing is, Shogun BEAT a PRIME Rampage more impressively then Jones beat an over the hill Rampage
Shogun also beat Machida (2x) back when Machida was still the man
So Shogun, without any of the massive size and reach advantages Jones always employs, still BEAT BETTER versions of Rampage and Machida more impressivly then Jones beat lesser versions of those fighters etc
Says a lot about how skilled Shogun truly is and can be when healthy etc
But injuries have cost him, and as a result his performances haven't been as consistent as Fedors/Andersons/Gsps
It really is unfortunate
But anyway, not just that, Shogun also has many more spectacular career defining wins:
Over a PRIME Arona, PRIME Nogueria, Overeem (2x)
Shogun also has wins over Forrest, Liddell, Coleman, Randleman etc
Top to bottom, Shogun has a better resume then Jones does
As of right now, Shogun is the LHW GOAT IMO
You've made a great case for better resume. Is that what GOAT is about or is it about who the best fighter is? There isn't a version of Shogun that could beat Jones, to me that makes Jones better. You discount his physical attributes and actually hold them against him as if that somehow makes him less of a fighter. If Shogun had Bones reach and length, he might be unbeatable, (and yes that includes against Coleman, Griffin, or Machida). Bones has been unbeatable. He's the better fighter.
so, let me get this straight?
GSP's losses to a legend, and a decent mma vet in serra with heavy hands makes it so he cant be goat?
But anderson 4 losses to pretty much nobodys doesnt interfere with his?
wow.
GSP24 -Had GSP not lost to Serra, he'd probably be the GOAT.
Had GSP not lost to Hughes AND Serra, he would definitely be the GOAT.
I can agree with that. 24-0 and that resume would be hard to argue against!!!!
Imagine the finishing we would still see out of "RUSH" as well. B-)
Thiaguy -OnlyTheStrongSurvive -Thiaguy - Lutter, Maia, Cote, Lietes, Leben, Okami etc were....
(and I mean that's half Anderson's win streak right there LOL)
...were in no way shape or form the best etc
The fact they were ranked in the top 5 for just fighting Anderson or for losing to Anderson proves how pathetic the MW division is and always has been etc
I like Anderson but truth is Gsp has fought the better competition PERIOD
People use that argument because it's fucking true! LOL stop being in denial Anderson fanboy!You can call me what you want and just say guys suck, but you haven't given a real reason or answered my question.
What have Alves, Kos, Fitch and Hardy done that is so much better than Marquardt, Okami, Sonnen and Maia?
What makes beating Penn, Hughes and Shields at 170 so much better than beating Franklin, Hendo, and Vitor at 185 and Forest at 205?
Do you have real reasons or are you just going to call me a fanboy and say middleweight sucks? You can make a good argument gsp is better. But competition is not how.
The calibre of fighters are simply better at 170! The division is stacked as well
If you can't see that, then I don't know what to say to you
I mean if you want me to debate you, what's the point?
How many big wins does Okami have? Very little if not any
Sonnen is a journey man who has lost more big fights then he's won etc
Who has Maia beaten as well?
Better yet,
Who did these fighters even beat to earn their title shots?
That's another thing which proves how weak the MW division is
BJ Penn and Hughes are greats of the sport etc
Like I said, if you don't get it now, you will never get it
Alright I will give you who they beat before earning title shots. Comparing Fitch, Alves, Hardy and Kos with Marquardt, Maia, Sonnen and Okami. I think Penn twice at 170, Hughes twice, and Shields are pretty close to Hendo, Franklin twice, Vitor Belfort and Forest Griffin at 205. No real reason to compare them, all are great.
Fitch's top victories prior to GSP - Thiago Alves and Diego Sanchez. After GSP - Ben Saunders, Mike Pierce, Paulo Thiago and Thiago Alves. 5-1-1 record
Thiago Alves prior to GSP - Karo Parysian, Matt Hughes, Josh Koscheck. After GSP - none. 2-3 record.
Dan Hardy prior to GSP - Marcus Davis and Mike Swick. After GSP - None. 2-3 record.
Koscheck prior to GSP - Diego Sanchez, Anthony Johnson and Paul Daley. After GSP - Matt Hughes. 1-1 record.
Marquardt before Silva - Dean Lister. After Silva - Jeremy Horn, Martin Kampmann, Demian Maia, Palhares and Tyrone Woodley. 7-3 record.
Demian Maia before Silva - submission wins over Chael Sonnen, Nate Quarry and Ed Herman, win over Dan Miller. After Silva - Jorge Santiago, Dong Hyun Kim. 3-2 record.
Chael Sonnen before Silva I - Paulo Filho, Okami, and Marquardt. Chael prior to Silva II - Brian Stann and Bisping.
Okama before Silva - Alan Belcher, Mark Munoz, Nate Marquardt. After Silva - none. 1-2 record.
Now when I break that down, Maia and Hardy were probably the weakest of each group, yet I would give an edge to Maia and it isn't close. Alves, Koscheck, Marquardt and Okami are all very close to each other in terms of resume. Marquardt did the least of the group before his shot, but the most after it. Fitch and Chael are probably the toughest 2 of each group. Fitch has the better record, and Chael has more wins over top competition, especially in the last few years.
I'm sorry, but when I actually look at what each guy has accomplished, I don't see how you can say one has had tougher competition than the other.