I DON'T want my BB in 3 years!

Underground BJJ Ground
61

Robert,

That was good, you got me on that one touche. The difference here is if I went to your house and you rented a Porsche and let me see it, drive it, and check the engine and then take my money and give me a remote control car that would be not only dishonest, but stealing. There is only one problem, Lloyd isn't taking money from people prior to producing the product and it isn't bait and switch. I will go one step further and say lloyd offers the first month of training for new students for free. That alone shows you what is in store for you and if you are there to get your BB in 3 1/2 years he is going to tell you what it takes.

62

Bentley,

You are making assumptions that he doesn't tell you what it takes when you walk in the door and you are incorrect he deos tell you what it takes when you walk in the door. He doesn't tell you in the advertisement, but you know as soon as you get there what it takes. You also get one month of training for free to try it out. Do you see the point yet?

63

I personally dont think Lloyd is doing anything unethical, just cheesy. I'm not a fan of his ads, but they dont offend me the way that Furey's do because Lloyd has proven that if you follow all of the steps he has outlines, you are sure to get the results you desire.

64

PAW,

I think you should read what I said, I am not a Lloyd student.

bjjprime8,

We cross posted...you'll see both our time stamps have the same time.

65

Lloyd's marketing system (or the one he learned) must really really work. 2-3 years (can't remember) after the Gameplan, and people are still talking about it and of Lloyd and his school.

Cheesy, annoying, call it whatever..., it works i suppose.
One thing is for sure. Lloyd sure likes money.

66

julius,

Where are the other guys on the team he's marketing? He's devoting A LOT of time sending out emails, updating the gameplan website devoted to Hall, pointing out his mistake in any match on the website, yet where are his other students? What about you? Where is the Julius Park gameplan website? By all accounts, you are a damn good purple belt and have been a purple belt for quite some time now. Where is your brown belt? Why aren't you on the 3.5 years plan?

prim8,

I do have a hard-on for you, that part is definitely true. I can't wait for your back/neck to heal so we can train.

67

"there is one problem with your statement Lloyd has the top team in the states right now and has for three years running."

LOL!

How can you make an ignorant statement like that when BJJ Revolution Team has won the American National team titles back to back in 05 & 06 and Gracie Barra won the Pan Ams. He had guys there both years and at the Pan Ams, yet Llyod Irvin's team wasn't in the top 3.

Llyod is a great instructor & coach and definitely has some good guys (Fowler, Hall, Vera) but to say his team in the best in the US is very debatable.

http://www.usjjf.com/

http://www.usjjf.com/results/2006american.htm

http://www.usjjf.com/results/2005american.htm

68

"He doesn't tell you in the advertisement, but you know as soon as you get there what it takes. You also get one month of training for free to try it out. Do you see the point yet?"

And of course, showing up and discovering that it isn't a perfect Porsche but a horribly water damaged vehicle in need of a lot of work you have the option of saying no.

But would you have felt decieved?

So far the only accurate thing you've said on this thread is comparing him to a used car salesman. We all know how HONEST used car salesman are right?

I bet you if you tried you wouldn't be able to catch a used car salesman in a DIRECT lie, but they're not known as honest people.....

HHHmmmmm, I wonder why that is....

69

Somehow my thread turned into a Lloyds Irving bash. This was not my intention. I deeply respect his acchievements as a coach.

Let me clarify.

I made that post last night right after I came back from training. We run a small academy in a building that's a total squat, I put all the mats down after a long day at work and scrubbed them all with mat cleaner. After that I helped to teach class and trained hard with several of our students that have been getting real good lately.

Finally I noticed that all the hard work has been paying off, but that progress is slow. it takes a long time for people to grasp the basics, but once they do, it's THEIRS forever. It makes me proud that I was able to teach them.

I love the hard core aspect of this art. you train hard, you get good, but it's gonna take some time.

Offering the people a magic shortcut is dumb because it attracts the lazy people that aren't willing to bleed to learn it. So why bother?

I would much rather look back and say I trained hard for 10 years, I totally sucked when I started but now I'm a black belt than say I trained hard for 3 years but I had secret training and now I'm a black belt (which makes you sound like a ninja)...

BTW. what's up JSHO? This is Daniel / Reversal of Dan. We hung out at the Dutch Open way back when you just got your blue belt!

70

It's also that 'instant gratification' thing that I hate so much...

Demanding and expecting quick results is the path to the darkside...

71

OG,

I don't ever remember us being friendly, or friends for that matter and I certainly don't remember saying I was going to, or wanted to train with you. I really think you need to get over this obsession you have with me it really isn't healthy.

72

Furcaco,

I'm talking GQ and the like. East coast tournaments, it's rare for anyone to send a whole team east or west for a comp if they live on the other side of the country. I wouldn't expect the teams you mentioned to be at every east coast tournament in full force that would be ignorant.

Bentley,

If I'm looking to train and someone told me "it takes this to get the results and come train for free for a month and see if it's for you." I wouldn't feel deceived at all, but that's just me. I also wouldn't have expected a cake walk, or a magic potion if it's taking everyone else 8-10 years to get one.

I see the common difference is you seem to think that Lloyd is offering a magic potion in his advertisement and has a shitty product at the end of the day. I feel he is marketing the positives, because let's face it no one markets the negatives in their advertisements. The difference is I think people already realize there will be a lot of sacrifice and hard work involved if you are going to get it that quickly and only a fool would think there is a magic pill. The final question is can Lloyd deliver said product as promised if you are willing to put in your end? The answer is yes.

Find me a few good products that point out their negatives and what not in their advertisements.

73

OG,

I'm starting up the I hate bjjprim8 fan club newsletter. Let me know if you want me to sign you up.

74

To some peaple it is importand to GET THE BELT...
I like to GET THE SKILLS...
some students progress faster then others. To me its not a race, I enjoy training and it dose not matter how long it takes.

75

Guys it's been fun, but I have to run to the gym and do real life things and stop farting around on the comp all day. It's been a fun discussion and I will agree to disagree with you Bentley.

OG,

Give me a call since you act like you know who I am and if you do then you would have my number.

76

can't we all just get along?

77

"I see the common difference is you seem to think that Lloyd is offering a magic potion in his advertisement and has a shitty product at the end of the day."

I'm sorry there is no "grab guy by the head and scream repeatedly in his ears" button on my lap top. So please for the sake of sanity, read carefully the following line:

I have never claimed he has a "shitty" product. I have never claimed he isn't a good coach.

read that fifty times before proceeding.

Next...

"Find me a few good products that point out their negatives and what not in their advertisements."

It's not that he is pointing out negatives (I've never considered the investment of hard work to be that much of a negative...but that's a different story) - it's that he is saying ONE thing, when in fact it is ANOTHER.

Why do you totally ignore this FACT?

What does he describe his product as in his advertisements?

QUICK, EASY, SECRET, IMMEDIATE, etc.

What is his product actually?

Well guided hard work.

Does he have access to mystical secrets that world champions keep to themselves like he claims? No - so this is yet another outright lie.

Unless of course you actually believe he broke into their "secret vault" and is in now possession of the "key".

So the summary:

1 - It's not that he's hiding the negatives, it's that he is saying ONE thing while something ELSE is the truth.

2 - He doesn't possess any "secrets" - just a good training system. There are many other coaches that have good and very successful training systems - and they make NO special claims like Lloyd does.

3 - And for the last goddamned time prim8, I'm not questioning his ability as a coach. I'm saying he's being dishonest in his ads.

I don't mean a "little" dishonest like car adverts etc-- I'm talking about "magical diet pill" level dishonesty. You don't see this because you have an issue with logic.

78

I have five minutes and I believe it can be quick, immediate? Sure, 3.5 years is pretty immediate, easy? That's the only thing I would say it won't be it certainly won't be easy. Secret? I do believe he is using systems others aren't using and he certainly isn't giving out that info so far, so secret would be true.

79

Each student is an individual and life comes into play due to injury, family, money etc. Even if someone has a perfect situation with full sponsership training 2x per day,they might not get the bjj blackbelt in 7 years, much less 3.5. I disagree with bjj being marketed for belts but I also understand that there is more behind what Lloyd is doing and his guys are really good.

I've found that differnt people are on different learning and athletic curves. You can't envy guys like Bj Penn. Just train hard yourself, compete, pay attention to the details, set goals, and accomplish them.

I train with a D1 wrestler who could be a bjj blackbelt in 3.5 years if he quit everything and went to Master Lloyd..no doubt about it. He already is a great wreslter and coach and if I show him a move he can immediatly threaten people with the move when he's rolling. The thing about it is that bjj is as much a lifestyle as it is a skill set and part of being a bjj blackbelt to me is the application of techniques, ability to teach, and lifestyle changes due to jiu-jitsu such as diet, exercise, and the personal interaction among your peers that you learn from years of training and competing.

3.5 years for a small few is enough time but I'd be willing to bet that only 2 out every 10 people who can make it to black in the first place can do it that quick. 3 years to purple belt is about standard for most good athletes who don't get a major injury. For people like myself, it's a 8-10 year journey to bb and I'm fine with that. If I was with Master Lloyd from the start I might have gotten it in 6 (If he's as good of a coach as he seems to be). I understand the point of the program and the results it produces but the marketing is not needed IMO.

80

bjjprim8,

I would love to be on the newsletter and there are alot of other people who would love to be on that newsletter

Did I offend you by asking to train with you? There are alot of people here who want to and in fact asked to train with you. Hey, who knows, maybe we'll get along in person.