As mentioned, THEY requested this; THEY suggested people come roll with them as proof of competence.
They could have just said, "Well, our school is not for everyone. We're just doing our own thing."
Their people said others would understand if they rolled with them. One girl is continuously referred to as "future world champion". --Not once or twice, but over and over again. It's quite weird.
But I understand, in reality, they are just two silly, girls who are more or less enthusiastic beginners in the sport. That part is great. The problem is the greed, stupidity, dishonesty and lack of foresight of adults who put them in this situation. No one should have ever given them a school and no one should have "certified" it.
I mean, my niece & nephew made me pretty decent French Toast recently --I was really impressed. I didn't however go out and buy them a restaurant and start saying they were future "Michelin Star chefs".
This exactly! I read repeated requests from them and numerous open invitations to try a Master Cycle class. They even had one of their "blackbelts" on here doing the same. Said blackbelt on here promptly disappeared once I offered to do so.
They also called publicly called out a local Royce blackbelt as well. Mysteriously, these offers, callouts, and challenges have all been suddenly deleted
Gumby. I didn't go anywhere. You're still invited to fort Riley ks. I been sleeping in today. Both my fighters won last night at the victory fight championships. Kind of a late night you know. (And I m not defending the sisters)
I politely offered to roll with Dad or any of their students or instructors they wished or wished to call in. When they refused I made sure to tell them that I wasn't there to hurt anyone and would make sure no one was injured rolling with me.
I was loudly informed that there was no way I was capable of hurting their students, that they were all VERY experienced at rolling, and they doubted I could pass the "BBD2 test" right now. I offered to hop on the mat and find out, or to take class, or to roll with any of their "experienced rollers". They told me to leave immediately.
As mentioned, THEY requested this; THEY suggested people come roll with them as proof of competence.
They could have just said, "Well, our school is not for everyone. We're just doing our own thing."
Their people said others would understand if they rolled with them. One girl is continuously referred to as "future world champion". --Not once or twice, but over and over again. It's quite weird.
But I understand, in reality, they are just two silly, girls who are more or less enthusiastic beginners in the sport. That part is great. The problem is the greed, stupidity, dishonesty and lack of foresight of adults who put them in this situation. No one should have ever given them a school and no one should have "certified" it.
I mean, my niece & nephew made me pretty decent French Toast recently --I was really impressed. I didn't however go out and buy them a restaurant and start saying they were future "Michelin Star chefs".
This exactly! I read repeated requests from them and numerous open invitations to try a Master Cycle class. They even had one of their "blackbelts" on here doing the same. Said blackbelt on here promptly disappeared once I offered to do so.
They also called publicly called out a local Royce blackbelt as well. Mysteriously, these offers, callouts, and challenges have all been suddenly deleted
Gumby. I didn't go anywhere. You're still invited to fort Riley ks. I been sleeping in today. Both my fighters won last night at the victory fight championships. Kind of a late night you know. (And I m not defending the sisters)
Sorry 'bout that Markus, I wasn't referring to you as disappearing. I was referring to "truthteller" on the other thread who claimed to be a karate blackbelt training there and called on CUO or Shen to drop in at FC.
(Again, no problems with Markus. Would be happy to train for fun though if I ever end up in that neck of the woods. )
While there are two sides to every story and while this is also likely rooted in some half-baked marketing campaign, posting something like "no one showed up" is clearly disingenuous.
I am sure wiggle room will be found in alleging EG didn't "show up for" the class but rather to prove a point. That post was a good opportunity to address the situation and that is the tack they took. Speaks for itself imo.
I knew they would back out if someone showed up.....however I, along with them did not think someone would show up. They probably shit their pants and now trying to figure out what to do now to fix this situation. Let's see what lies they come up with now.
EvilGumby - I let them know I was a doubter who had followed the story on Facebook but had an open mind and saw their posts welcoming visitors to judge in person at a Masters Cycle class so I was here from Phoenix to do just that.
I understand what you were trying to do, but think how it would come across to them. Why would you waste your time 'invading' someone else's business when you have stated that would never become a member? What benefit of it is to you and your training? Were your motivations to build them up or knock them down? What would you be filming? Would you be filming them teaching a class? I am sure they can teach well. What did you hope to gain by crashing the business of a couple of teenage girls? If, like my old Karate dojo, it was filled with bikers who will not think twice about locking the doors and putting you in hospital (something I witnessed), would you do the same thing? Why is this your business? I am not sure this is best strategy.
It was obvious you were not sincere, and no normal person, unless a reporter or something, shows up and wants to videotape.
The problem is that this whole situation has them on the defensive, and you are there to show them up, and not help them. For some reason you want to play judge and jury, and the verdict has already been decided.
So tell us exactly, why you, a grown man, would want to bother with all of this, and what you expected to happen?
Many of us train at places where people have "just showed up". Many obviously with agendas. Every single time we wavered them in, gave them their free classes, and everyone offered to roll with them. I've personally had drop ins have people video, ask me my belt and grappling experience and then roll with me. I don't think they for the vid they were hoping, but I've seen it obliged many times.
This was their chance to legitimize their claims with an unassuming small outsider. Jiujitsu has a proud history of convincing its doubters through trial classes and on the mat.
What do you think Shen or CUO would do if I showed up at their door asking to train and video? Heck Markus has repeatedly come forth to let me know I would be welcome to do so there. Makes him seem instantly even more legitimate. Gracie Fort Collins tried to do the same thing But in their case it was a bluff that was called as they have no intention of following through. Some thing about transparency leads to legitimacy IMO
I'm all for calling out fakes; but something not cool about dojo storming/humiliating teen girls which regardless of their invitation is what you were doing.
Wouldn't emailing in advance or posting to their FB page have proven the point better? Their reaction would have told the whole story. I always contact the instructor before visiting a new place.
Jewbacca - I'm all for calling out fakes; but something not cool about dojo storming/humiliating teen girls which regardless of their invitation is what you were doing.
First, they are instructors. So a good instructor should have produced students who could roll with me. Second, they publicly INVITED drop ins specifically in response to experienced doubters like me. So this as their publicly requested scenario.
It seems like many want it both ways. Backing of the idea that teens can teach and run an academy. But can't be expected to handle many of the situations adult instructors run into. If this is the case, it pretty much admits that these teens have no business running an academy.
They have also posted on here that there are many quality training partners for adult black belt students. Their Dad (the only one who spoke to me. Teens stood by silently and never even greeted me when I walked in the door and introduced myself (only instructors ever to not speak to visitors wanting to take their class.)
Dad proclaimed that all of their students were experienced "rollers" as well. If any of this were true they could have found a partner for my 158 pound self. Teens would have been able to teach and post their stellar Master Cycle class with visiting brown for all to exploit. Oh but wait, there weren't even any students on hand for these prodigy instructors at a school claiming in excess of 200 students (according to dad who also failed to provide his name when I shook his hand).
Fuck all these pussies from the new generation. Challenge matches were and are a part of our support. There is not a week that goes by where someone doesn't come in trying prove themselves at a gym somewhere around the world.
What they are trying to do is take away the effectiveness of our art by backing out of demonstrating it. Demonstration is the most important part of our art. What they are doing is Kata bjj. They demonstrate that they can mimic something but they don't show that they can apply it. If our sport was to follow their lead, we would turn into taekwondo by next month.
Evil Gumby is keeping the sanctity of the sport. I salute him for what he is done. More people need to step up when they see bullshit like this happen.
I don't care if these girls are teenagers. They're claiming they can teach the art and they need to step the fuck up. Even if Gumby beat them they might have been able to demonstrate that they had some skill. But they lost that chance and now they will forever look stupid.
Their affiliation to the Gracie academy is quite hysterical. The Gracie academy was known as the place for all challenge matches.
EvilGumby - They offered drop ins. So I dropped in.
vu for having the cojones...
I, by the imagined powers vested in me through this forum, hereby award EvilGumby with an honorary, Technical Stripe on his brown belt for his nobility, cajones and "damm this dude's serious" efforts at seeking truth and accepting the Ft. Collins challenge road trip.
As mentioned, THEY requested this; THEY suggested people come roll with them as proof of competence.
They could have just said, "Well, our school is not for everyone. We're just doing our own thing."
Their people said others would understand if they rolled with them. One girl is continuously referred to as "future world champion". --Not once or twice, but over and over again. It's quite weird.
But I understand, in reality, they are just two silly, girls who are more or less enthusiastic beginners in the sport. That part is great. The problem is the greed, stupidity, dishonesty and lack of foresight of adults who put them in this situation. No one should have ever given them a school and no one should have "certified" it.
I mean, my niece & nephew made me pretty decent French Toast recently --I was really impressed. I didn't however go out and buy them a restaurant and start saying they were future "Michelin Star chefs".
Guys, they are motivated teenage girls, but they key being that they are TEENAGE GIRLS still in high school. If they were 25 year olds, or something, then I understand, i just don't see why grown men want to teach some teenage girls a lesson in BJJ. I'm not sure if greed is the issue, but just it's more like the human need of wanting to be part of something bigger. I personally have ZERO problem with them and/or what they do beyond stupidly, out of gross insecurity and naiveness, wearing black karate belts during their BJJ classes or some nonsense like that. That, and a little hyperbole.
If they have created a community that enjoys the activity and willingly pays for it, it's no one's business but theirs.
I personally don't have a problem with the certified status as they are following a process, much like a franchise, whether or not one disagrees with the approach, and they (supposedly) teach a highly specific set o techniques, drills and sequences in a prescribed manner. And they seem to be doing far better than the typical couch-surfing, tattooed, weed-promoting,shady-ass guys I saw running gyms as blue, purple, and brown belts over the past 20 years.
Yes, they are engaging in a bit of cult-like thinking, and hyperbole, but I am just confused as to why anyone would even care. Do what you think is good for you and stop worrying about things happening across the country or with people you will never meet.
You've posted in these threads more than anyone else, so clearly YOU care.
Their Facebook now says 'Train under Rener and Ryron'. How many days a week are they teaching there? Or, do they think they train under R&R? To train under someone, you train with them weekly, if not daily...in person. Delusional kids.
