RenzoStudent2004 - Rule states explicitly palm or fist of both hands must be down. That was neither his palm nor his fist.
NYSAC rule?
link?
Cookeabowl -This. Dumbass people slowing a replay down to say finger tips were touching. GtfoBuyTheTicketTakeTheRide -Cookeabowl -Thanks for making this thread, palm or fist down. We done here?
Point is, Rogan was going by that criteria. So was the referee, and everyone else watching. And the second knee, by that criteria, was illegal.
Both palms, both fists or a palm and a fist is ruled a downed opponent. Fingers don't count.
Pat Giles -Why do people say dumb shit like that? A warrior would just keep fighting illegal or not.anel2ka -He was allowed 5 minutes. The doctor decided after he was complaining about the illegal knee (which was legal) that he could not compete. So game over. A warrior would have said let's keep going after the initial knee.BuyTheTicketTakeTheRide - Thank you! This is the salient point.
Now, I know the sport is still young and we'll continue to make mistakes, but by that criteria Weidman should've been allowed his 5mins at the very least!
No they wouldn't. A fighter with low fight IQ wouldn't have learned from all the "warriors" who lose after taking an illegal strike and say "I'm ok, let's go".
If your told a foul has taken place and you have 5 min, you take the 5 min and see how you are. Obviously unless your opponent is hurt or completely gassed and would benefit more from the 5 min. You do this because a loss means half the money and a L on your record.
Trying to put your hands on the ground to avoid a knee to the head is no different then positioning yourself on the cage to avoid a TD or a sub. Its called avoiding a bad position. Its part of fighting smart.
Pat Giles -anel2ka -He was allowed 5 minutes. The doctor decided after he was complaining about the illegal knee (which was legal) that he could not compete. So game over. A warrior would have said let's keep going after the initial knee.BuyTheTicketTakeTheRide - Thank you! This is the salient point.
Now, I know the sport is still young and we'll continue to make mistakes, but by that criteria Weidman should've been allowed his 5mins at the very least!
- keyboard warrior
The Maestro -TXExpat -This illustrates the problems with rules of minutia when you lack a solid vehicle by which the ‘officials’ in charge can make rulings based on factual evidence.
Dan didn’t make a mistake; he made a judgment call as it happened. He can only work with what he sees at that time and since you’re talking about fractions of a second, no person can expect to successfully analyze that kind of detail as it happens with 100% accuracy. There have been plenty of bad calls by referees in any sport but it’ll never be ‘fair’ to everyone unless they have someone who can officially analyze instant replays and make rulings at that time. Since NY lacked that perspective, Dan’s original call should have prevailed, even after McCarthy informed him otherwise. Since Weidman was angling for a DQ win, that’s probably what should have happened based on the state rules that governed the event. If it’s wrong then it gets overturned when it gets contested.
The whole fight is fucked and will most likely be turned into a no contest, as it should. Both fighters are guilty of creating the situation. Mousasi couldn’t have known that the knees were legal and Weidman was guilty of trying to use a rule to shield him from blows instead of following the most basic rule of protecting yourself at all times.
I agree with almost everything. If Dan judged that the the knee was illegal and intentional, then Yes, Weidman should have gotten the DQ win. If Dan judged that the knee was illegal and unintentional (which I believe he did), then the fight should be ruled a No Contest, being that Weidman couldn't continue.
Dan said that he wasn't going to take a point off, so it's likely that he believed it to be unintentional. Intent matters in the scenario.
That's a good point and that's probably how it should have gone down in the ring. Having BJM come up and 'correct' Dan's call in the ring really screws the pooch for everything past that. Dan now thinks he needs to reverse his call and chaos ensues. It's too bad that Weidman was fighting for the DQ win instead of fighting to get back into the fight. I bet they would have just let it go if he didn't have the doctors convinced that he couldn't go on. That's what you get for trying to game a win on a rule instead of pushing on and trying to get the win on your performance.
First he says I thought I was going to get the DQ win (because he couldn't go on) and then he says he wishes it would have not been stopped because he's been through worse and could have kept going. Gotta pick a story and stick to it...
All of you guys defending Weidman really want someone to exploit the rules for a DQ? Winning on a technicality is not a win.
JOESONDO - All of you guys defending Weidman really want someone to exploit the rules for a DQ? Winning on a technicality is not a win.
Not really. I think what Weidman did was awful. I think he was 100% bullshitting to get a DQ win. It's not that we "support Weidman." We want the rules to be strictly enforced, even if we are on the losing end of a call. You can't support the law only when it favors your verdict.
JOESONDO - All of you guys defending Weidman really want someone to exploit the rules for a DQ? Winning on a technicality is not a win.
ok he was exploiting the rules as all fighters do
but looking for a DQ?
come on
murfamurph -The Maestro -JOESONDO - All of you guys defending Weidman really want someone to exploit the rules for a DQ? Winning on a technicality is not a win.
Not really. I think what Weidman did was awful. I think he was 100% bullshitting to get a DQ win. It's not that we "support Weidman." We want the rules to be strictly enforced, even if we are on the losing end of a call. You can't support the law only when it favors your verdict.You can not even tell from that video when the knee lands. The refs decided his hand came up when the knee landed, making it legal and a tko giving Weidman was concussed. Weidman was gaming the system, the refs saw the replay and came to that same conclusion. You are behind on this one.
1. replays aren't allowed in NY
2. his hand came up because moose threw the knee while his hands were on the floor
it's kinda murky territory
Be funny if Damien Maia walked like a crab against an elite striker, took him down and submitted him without taking a single punch. He could single handidly (no pun intended) kill that rule.
Card -End of thread and argument. No one is blaming Weidman. He went down like he was hurt from the knee but obviously he was milking it but the fact is he went down and the referee stopped it as he thought it was a illegal knee and Weidman wasn't getting up. He stayed down the whole time.
"I thought I was going to win by DQ"
Once the commission confirmed it was a LEGAL knee and going how Weidmans reaction from the knee and body language they made the right call in stopping it.
This sets a good example for all fighters who try to milk a situation and look for a cheap DQ win.
Karma won on the night. I don't want to see a rematch. Mousasi was going to win either way. Move on
The Maestro -JOESONDO - All of you guys defending Weidman really want someone to exploit the rules for a DQ? Winning on a technicality is not a win.
Not really. I think what Weidman did was awful. I think he was 100% bullshitting to get a DQ win. It's not that we "support Weidman." We want the rules to be strictly enforced, even if we are on the losing end of a call. You can't support the law only when it favors your verdict.
I think it would be a bit of a reach to say he was 100% bullshitting. Let's face it, he got his bell rung solidly. If he's fucked up enough, by blows that he believes are illegal, that he thinks it's going to put him at a distinct disadvantage if it restarts, then he'd be a fool to advocate for a restart.
I know we want these guys to be all hard charging and never quit but if the guy is a professional, he has to self-assess and make choices based on what he feels he can do. It would be nuts to rush back in just to get knocked out because he doesn’t want to win on a technical issue.
I do agree he was selling it pretty heavy but he’s operating under one set of circumstances and they made their decision based on another… everyone loses when that’s what’s allowed to happen.
murfamurph -dermotfix -murfamurph -The Maestro -JOESONDO - All of you guys defending Weidman really want someone to exploit the rules for a DQ? Winning on a technicality is not a win.
Not really. I think what Weidman did was awful. I think he was 100% bullshitting to get a DQ win. It's not that we "support Weidman." We want the rules to be strictly enforced, even if we are on the losing end of a call. You can't support the law only when it favors your verdict.You can not even tell from that video when the knee lands. The refs decided his hand came up when the knee landed, making it legal and a tko giving Weidman was concussed. Weidman was gaming the system, the refs saw the replay and came to that same conclusion. You are behind on this one.
1. replays aren't allowed in NY
2. his hand came up because moose threw the knee while his hands were on the floor
it's kinda murky territory
Its not murky, the rules state that If the hand comes up when the strike lands, it is legal.
its also illegal to throw the strike when opponent is downed
Pride never die
dermotfix -murfamurph -dermotfix -murfamurph -The Maestro -JOESONDO - All of you guys defending Weidman really want someone to exploit the rules for a DQ? Winning on a technicality is not a win.
Not really. I think what Weidman did was awful. I think he was 100% bullshitting to get a DQ win. It's not that we "support Weidman." We want the rules to be strictly enforced, even if we are on the losing end of a call. You can't support the law only when it favors your verdict.You can not even tell from that video when the knee lands. The refs decided his hand came up when the knee landed, making it legal and a tko giving Weidman was concussed. Weidman was gaming the system, the refs saw the replay and came to that same conclusion. You are behind on this one.
1. replays aren't allowed in NY
2. his hand came up because moose threw the knee while his hands were on the floor
it's kinda murky territory
Its not murky, the rules state that If the hand comes up when the strike lands, it is legal.
its also illegal to throw the strike when opponent is downed
No its not according to the rules. The rules are simple, but I understand for many people googling the rules and being able to read them is not. Opponent is down when 2 palms or fists are touching the mat. How many of Weidman's palms or fist were touching? Zero. He had his fingertips on the mat.
Even if all 5 fingertips on each hand were touching at the moment of impact, it would still be legal because it wasnt his palms or fists.
dermotfix -murfamurph -dermotfix -murfamurph -The Maestro -JOESONDO - All of you guys defending Weidman really want someone to exploit the rules for a DQ? Winning on a technicality is not a win.
Not really. I think what Weidman did was awful. I think he was 100% bullshitting to get a DQ win. It's not that we "support Weidman." We want the rules to be strictly enforced, even if we are on the losing end of a call. You can't support the law only when it favors your verdict.You can not even tell from that video when the knee lands. The refs decided his hand came up when the knee landed, making it legal and a tko giving Weidman was concussed. Weidman was gaming the system, the refs saw the replay and came to that same conclusion. You are behind on this one.
1. replays aren't allowed in NY
2. his hand came up because moose threw the knee while his hands were on the floor
it's kinda murky territory
Its not murky, the rules state that If the hand comes up when the strike lands, it is legal.
its also illegal to throw the strike when opponent is downed
No it isn't.
The rule is defend yourself at all times. Putting your hands on the mat trying to be considered down when you are not a downed opponant is not defending yourself. It is trying to work the system which is what the commision is trying to stop fighters from doing.
BuyTheTicketTakeTheRide -BubblesNS - watch the video. when contact is made the left hand is off the canvas. jesus.Fingers are down on impact. Close, but still.
You're going by the old bullshit gameplaying ruleset.
RenzoStudent2004 -dermotfix -murfamurph -dermotfix -murfamurph -The Maestro -JOESONDO - All of you guys defending Weidman really want someone to exploit the rules for a DQ? Winning on a technicality is not a win.
Not really. I think what Weidman did was awful. I think he was 100% bullshitting to get a DQ win. It's not that we "support Weidman." We want the rules to be strictly enforced, even if we are on the losing end of a call. You can't support the law only when it favors your verdict.You can not even tell from that video when the knee lands. The refs decided his hand came up when the knee landed, making it legal and a tko giving Weidman was concussed. Weidman was gaming the system, the refs saw the replay and came to that same conclusion. You are behind on this one.
1. replays aren't allowed in NY
2. his hand came up because moose threw the knee while his hands were on the floor
it's kinda murky territory
Its not murky, the rules state that If the hand comes up when the strike lands, it is legal.
its also illegal to throw the strike when opponent is downed
No its not according to the rules. The rules are simple, but I understand for many people googling the rules and being able to read them is not. Opponent is down when 2 palms or fists are touching the mat. How many of Weidman's palms or fist were touching? Zero. He had his fingertips on the mat.
Even if all 5 fingertips on each hand were touching at the moment of impact, it would still be legal because it wasnt his palms or fists.
Good post, 17er.
Op, did you really have to make an entire thread, just to let us know you have no idea what you're talking about?