It better to pull guard then let yourself get KO'd b/c of ego.
I would like to see Aoki fight someone with GOOD G&P before we hail him as god of guard. Nog was supposed to tap everyone from guard until he ran into Fedor
Especially with the unified rules that wont allow Aoki to use pants anymore its going to be much harder for him
i havent seen too much good gnp in the ufc for awhile.
good as in effective, or good as in exciting and fan-friendly?
and please note that i'm not degrading the value of being exciting and fan friendly, i'm in the fight business, and the operative word is BUSINESS. i get paid to provide excitement. but i also get paid to win. making winning exciting is the duty of the Orgs.
the NFL tweaks their rules every year to make a better product. MMA loses when it doesn't do the same.
The reason is that it's ALWAYS better to be on top. Unless you don't think you can take down a superior striker, it's best to work for top position. If not, clinch and pull guard, and you'd better hope you've done your homework!
basicly, the point is that "takedown defense getting better" does not necessarrily make jumping guard that much of a better option, because "jumping guard" is just another takedown. a takedown that leaves you in a weak position instead of a dominant one. many fighters can defend "guard pulls" pretty well, it's not the "be all, end all" of takedowns. just another tool in the takedown toolbox, and a tool with a lot of limitations.
i saw an incredible powerhouse slam once. it was the full "take out the trash" garbage dump. the guy just didn't look that strong. i watched the replay - it was actually just a slickly countered guard pull attempt.
Did they show Din Thomas' fight on tv?
He shot and pulled guard to avoid Stephens superior striking and then got the arm bar from the guard to win. It was beautiful :)
BTW - thanks for the modern RG game Eddie. GnP was really getting too simple, too dominant. nice to show how jiujitsu is also capable of innovation and improvement.
in your expert opinion, any specific trends in the modern GnP game you're looking to counter now? what is the current "state of the art"?
"position before submission."
bas rules.
Eddie, you and everyone else are missing my point.
It isn't always as simple as "just pulling guard." TYry it agains an wrestler who doesn't want to be on the ground at all.
Din puled guard against a vastly inferior fighter. No disrespect to stephens, but he's one of those midwest guys who padded his record on guys who don't train. Din was also able to takedown stephens, and totally dominate on the ground. I also think Din was better standing aside from a few wild puches. Din simply outclassed stephens, he pulled guard, but could have also gotten the takedown.
The question isn't about if pulling guard can be effective. Obviously it will be if you are vastly superior to your opponent on the ground. The question is how do you pull guard on a disciplined fighter who won't foolishly follow you to the ground? I dont think I've ever seen anyone pull guard on a guy who tried to stay on his feet.
I think somebody hit it on the head saying ACTIVE gaurd is were it's at. I see a lot of people just hold on for dear life in the gaurd and not try and do something. I know that there are worries of GnP butI see guys use an offensive gaurd and fair well when they are there. Just my opinion...and I don't fight :)
When someone pulls guard its not to win points in the minds of the judges its to defend & attack with submissions.
nice post by thunder
Gladiator Gannon, The point in judo is to throw someone and pin. If judoka ends up on the ground it will be from the turtle since they only have 15 seconds on the ground. If you do have a sub all you have to do is lift the guy and the match is reset. so answer me this question, where do judo players learn to fight from the guard? since you were just kissing Eddie's butt, try asking him. I bet Eddie, being a BJJ black belt knows Aoki's techniques. In fact it looks closer to Eddie's style than judo.
"The reason is that it's ALWAYS better to be on top."
There's quite a few successful MMA guys that would disagree with that. Nogueira and Aoki for a start.
On top is better, but MMa is about using your skills to win, so take the fight to take best advantage of your talents. All quite logical.
Din pulled guard Saturday night and it worked out okay for him...even without a rubber guard.
"Gladiator Gannon, The point in judo is to throw someone and pin. If judoka ends up on the ground it will be from the turtle since they only have 15 seconds on the ground. If you do have a sub all you have to do is lift the guy and the match is reset. so answer me this question, where do judo players learn to fight from the guard? since you were just kissing Eddie's butt, try asking him. I bet Eddie, being a BJJ black belt knows Aoki's techniques. In fact it looks closer to Eddie's style than judo. "
like i said, you've got to lighten up on the spliff. you're getting so out of touch with reality, you must have some crazy stuff laced with some really bad shit.
have you ever SEEN a judo match? if you have, you were obviously too high to pay attention.
" The point in judo is to throw someone and pin."
absolutely ridiculous and wrong. the point of Judo is execute a perfect throw and land your opponent squarely on his back. this is called Ippon. groundwork only occurs if your throw was considered insufficient to end the match, so claiming that pinning is Judo's goal is obvious BS.
the next obvious piece of BS is that it is impossible for a Judoka to land in anything but a turtle. if that were true, most of Judo's scoring system for throws wouldn't exist. common sense and physics should tell you that no style can automaticly guarantee that you will land in turtle every time.
"they only have 15 seconds on the ground"
also wrong. please research before posting such nonsense.
"If you do have a sub all you have to do is lift the guy and the match is reset. so answer me this question, where do judo players learn to fight from the guard?"
i don't have to ask them, i've WATCHED them do it over and over again. again, do some research, get on YouTube, and you can watch numerous judo subs from what BJJ calls guard. you can also find old judo texts demonstrating the position BEFORE bjj existed.
"since you were just kissing Eddie's butt, try asking him. I bet Eddie, being a BJJ black belt knows Aoki's techniques. In fact it looks closer to Eddie's style than judo. "
a man knows how to show another man the respect he is due, without "kissing butt". do you?
i respect Eddie for his accomplishments, for being the foremost innovator in the modern Rubber Guard game. no he did not invent the position (and never claimed to - it is clearly documented in earlier Judo books). but he did revolutionize and dramaticly improve the RG game.
"I bet Eddie, being a BJJ black belt knows Aoki's techniques."
Eddie is famous for having invented many of Aoki's techniques/methods so he probably still remembers them. not even Eddie smokes that much pot!
"In fact it looks closer to Eddie's style than judo."
yes, that is the classic modern RG game as created by Eddie. however, most of Aoki's grappling skills come from his extensive Judo background.
Eddie, please, hook this kid up with some better spliff! the stuff he's smoking obviously has household chemicals that are rotting his brain. he needs some special Eddie Bravo Primo Gold! that will clear his head and let him focus on learning his jiujitsu!