os3y3ris - The "thousands" comes from affiliation fees, as mandated by the IBJJF. Average cost I'd say is about $1500. If you already have an affiliation, then its just the $400. If not, you need to purchase one. If you would like for me to prove that this is the real price point, PM me and I'll show you a couple random affiliation packages ranging into the thousands, as well as statements from affiliates.
The IBJJF interferes in immigration matters by encouraging Brazilians to come over based on their lineage, affiliation and/or black belt status. This holds true for both O-visas and work visas. I can provide evidence backing this practice up as well. The black belt status is, as we are currently discussing, linked to payment of dues, meaning that their immigration status is thus linked to said payments.
"The following problems were found when processing submission:
os3y3ris is only accepting messages from pros or friends"
I'm very interested in the affiliation costs, not that I doubt you but have always wondered about them.
os3y3ris - The "thousands" comes from affiliation fees, as mandated by the IBJJF. Average cost I'd say is about $1500. If you already have an affiliation, then its just the $400. If not, you need to purchase one. If you would like for me to prove that this is the real price point, PM me and I'll show you a couple random affiliation packages ranging into the thousands, as well as statements from affiliates.
The IBJJF interferes in immigration matters by encouraging Brazilians to come over based on their lineage, affiliation and/or black belt status. This holds true for both O-visas and work visas. I can provide evidence backing this practice up as well. The black belt status is, as we are currently discussing, linked to payment of dues, meaning that their immigration status is thus linked to said payments.
"The following problems were found when processing submission:
os3y3ris is only accepting messages from pros or friends"
I'm very interested in the affiliation costs, not that I doubt you but have always wondered about them.
I'm keen to find out more too as I was looking at becoming certified and already thought it was expensive! What kind of association fees are there for an independent gym in Australia?
So um, not to derail this back to its actual topic, but...I'm a BJJ black belt. I tried to register on the IBJJF website and only saw the option for $400, not $35. Li'l help?
The website isn't the most efficient and emailing with the IBJJF can also be confusing. However, in order to get a BB card from the IBJJF for competition purposes it will cost you $35 and a few forms signed by your instructor who needs to have 2 stripes. Those are the IBJJF's rules, probably an effort to maintain some type of standards in the belt system. Just a guess by me.
In order to be a BB that is able to promote in the eyes of the IBJJF you need a similar bunch of signatures and dates of your promotions by your instructor with 2 stripes. You'll also need the ref course, CPR and pay $400. In turn you get a diploma and the ability to promote students to BB once you get your 2nd stripe.
It is not actually mandatory to be part of an association but it helps. It is mandatory that your signatures are from an IBJJF approved 2 stripe BB which means at some point they likely WERE part of an association but do not have to be currently involved.
I have been critical of the IBJJF and some of their practices but as a gym owner I want my students to be able to compete in whatever tournaments they want to so I play ball with the IBJJF. It legitimizes your gym and makes life easier on your students. I am part of the Carlson Gracie Federation and I do not pay thousands for annual fees or anything like that but I don't know the ins and outs of every single federation going. I'm sure some of them are a definite money grab but our is not.
In the long run being affiliated with the IBJJF is a personal preference. If competing in their tournaments means a lot to you go for it. If not do other tournaments. I just don't think they're going anywhere for a while and I want my students to be able to compete in what most people believe are the most prestigious BJJ events. Just my 2 cents.
os3y3ris - I don't know what the market looks like in Australia, nor do I know which associations are active. Haven't been to that part of the world in years. In my search I've found $600, $1,000, $2,500, $3,500 and $4,500 depending on association, and the maximum rank available within the association. Up to brown, you can find free association in the Globe Trotters world wide, but you can not currently move up to black belt with them per IBJJF rules. It's an issue that is primarily relevant to instructors and assistant instructors. Otherwise its simply worked into your gym fees and you rep another team sometimes.
Sometimes associations, or the Federation itself can alter the agreements or change the rules. For example, under the Checkmat association, you need to be ranked third degree to promote students of any level. This is an important consideration when you're looking to run a dojo. There are also "per student", "per belt" and "renewal fees" to consider.
Now, the key here is not to think of these as teams, but as franchises. Its not a jiujitsu thing, but a business thing. So think carefully and ask about the fine print when you take that assistant instructor gig.
This is a bunch of horse shit. I train at Checkmat...
So um, not to derail this back to its actual topic, but...I'm a BJJ black belt. I tried to register on the IBJJF website and only saw the option for $400, not $35. Li'l help?
I think this might be due to the fact that, I think, they don't recognize Joe Moreira which on turn they won't recognize Roy Harris and they won't recognize any of Roy's black belts.
Though, maybe you could ask Roy Dean? I think he's competed as a black belt when they required black belt cards for IBJJF tourneys.
^^^I'm a little confused here. Its says "...Checkmat now has their own set of rules..." so why is that being tied to IBJJF? Just asking for clarification, because I dont understand the reference.
The thousands of dollars in affiliation costs go to the school/owner of the affiliations them selves correct?
Are you trying to say that you have to spend extra thousands of dollars on affiliation fee that have to be paid to IBJJF?
So if I wanted to one day open a school and promote my own students to black belt eventually, I would simply need to get the correct signatures on my documentation, pay the $400, get the CPR training cert (any CPR cert?), and do the rules training. This process would be done for the black belt itself, then I'll I'd have to do is renew each year until I reached my 2nd stripe, then I could promote students of my own to black belt?
As I am currently affiliated with GB, if I were to open a GB than I think the affiliation costs would be between me and GB if and when I decided to do that. I think thats what the others are trying to say right?
That's interesting. Not saying I don't believe you, but I also can't believe you just because you or someone else says its true. But if so, that is quite a dilemma. I don't really know how to address that.
I tried to read the bullshido postings, but to be honest, it was really scattered and hard to wrap my head around. I'll go back and read it again.
But ultimately I think this thread has been side tracked by the three of you guys. So, where do all the hidden costs that you speak of come up when registering your black belt? And who do you have to pay the costs to?
os3y3ris - GB Dave, that is being posted to address Sannyassin's statement that Checkmat did no such a thing. Yes, yes they did.
Also, Barra is owned by the head of the IBJJF. In fact, we talked to a guy the other week who had his black belt rejected by the IBJJF because he was too close to a Gracie Barra.
You and Philips keep posting a bunch of random he said she said bullshit. You are taking isolated cases (without proof to be honest) and presenting them as a pattern of widespread maliciousness. There are two sides to every story. I train at checkmat. Our school is one of the most prestigious in the world and in BJJ competition scene. Buchecha, the guy you said you could beat and wasn't the legitimate world champion because he never faced you, is a checkmat black belt. Our professors have always promoted their students without a 3rd degree black belt requirement. What you are saying or what someone is feeding you is total bullshit.
Also if you're so balls out hell bent on destroying Carlos Gracie Jr and the IBJJF for denying you a diploma you didn't want to pay for, stop holding back and blanking out names. Show PROOF. Enough with these stories about a guy who knows a guy who knows his cousin who was scammed by Carlos Gracie. Put up or shut up, because right now you keep presenting lies and heresay. Nothing you or Matt show constitutes as a PATTERN of anything. These are heavy accusations and each year the sheeple (according to Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum) keep signing up for memberships and competitions in increasing numbers. Either we're all dumb and blind to the "facts" you're presenting or maybe the most logical explanation is that you and your bored friend are reaching hard because of some personal salty gripe you have with the federation.
So if I wanted to one day open a school and promote my own students to black belt eventually, I would simply need to get the correct signatures on my documentation, pay the $400, get the CPR training cert (any CPR cert?), and do the rules training. This process would be done for the black belt itself, then I'll I'd have to do is renew each year until I reached my 2nd stripe, then I could promote students of my own to black belt?
As I am currently affiliated with GB, if I were to open a GB than I think the affiliation costs would be between me and GB if and when I decided to do that. I think thats what the others are trying to say right?
GB Dave,
That is my impression. Until you have your second stripe your instructor (as long as he has 2 stripes) would be the individual to sign to get you academy affiliated with the IBJJF and to sign for any students who may get a black before you get stripe #2.
Being a GB affiliate might mean you have more direct access to this process than most.
Affiliates with big teams are all different. I have buddy who runs a GB affiliate and I know the way they do things is different than we do in the Carlson Federation. How that works is up to GB.
So if I wanted to one day open a school and promote my own students to black belt eventually, I would simply need to get the correct signatures on my documentation, pay the $400, get the CPR training cert (any CPR cert?), and do the rules training. This process would be done for the black belt itself, then I'll I'd have to do is renew each year until I reached my 2nd stripe, then I could promote students of my own to black belt?
As I am currently affiliated with GB, if I were to open a GB than I think the affiliation costs would be between me and GB if and when I decided to do that. I think thats what the others are trying to say right?
GB Dave,
That is my impression. Until you have your second stripe your instructor (as long as he has 2 stripes) would be the individual to sign to get you academy affiliated with the IBJJF and to sign for any students who may get a black before you get stripe #2.
Being a GB affiliate might mean you have more direct access to this process than most.
Affiliates with big teams are all different. I have buddy who runs a GB affiliate and I know the way they do things is different than we do in the Carlson Federation. How that works is up to GB.
Are you seriously issuing fight challenges on the internet?
What a douche! Haha
No wonder you burned all your bridges in BJJ. You and your inbred friend call for integrity in martial arts but then call out d3adly interwebz challenges because you're both butt hurt. You have zero integrity and your ego is out of control. What a hypocrite!
Buchecha and Keenan aren't refusing to fight you because you couldn't even hold their jocks...
John Clarke, thanks. Though I'm not active right now, I too would like my students to have access to all kinds of competition at all levels, and whatever else becomes related in the future.
Wutang - while the IBJJF does not recognize Joe Moreira's ranks, they do recognize Roy Harris. Those of us under him can register as such. Roy Dean and others have done so.
Thanks guys. I'll definitely keep looking into it.
GB Dave, at 53:42 of this broadcast you can hear longtime California grappling instructor Michael MacDonald describing his attempt to register with the IBJJF. He describes both the fee requested, and being asked to take his business out of competition with the GB gym in his market. The other parties in the conversation are Bullshido Director Neal Fletcher, Bullshido Head of BJJ Investigations Georgette Oden, and myself. MacDonald makes his statements on the record, and under his full name.
os3y3ris - No, I'm not issuing a challenge to anyone. I'm saying that the penalty for not paying is that they DON'T fight you, which I think is backwards.
As for Buchecha, Keenan, etc. I've got more experience than both actually. I win some and lose some and I left the IBJJF with a winning record. I don't know why you assume I can't grapple. I've been doing this for thirteen years now. Skill and business arrangements are two different things.
How many world championships or other prestigious titles do you have? Cause im pretty sure they have a shit load more experience fighting fellow world class grapplers than you.
os3y3ris - I don't know what the market looks like in Australia, nor do I know which associations are active. Haven't been to that part of the world in years. In my search I've found $600, $1,000, $2,500, $3,500 and $4,500 depending on association, and the maximum rank available within the association. Up to brown, you can find free association in the Globe Trotters world wide, but you can not currently move up to black belt with them per IBJJF rules. It's an issue that is primarily relevant to instructors and assistant instructors. Otherwise its simply worked into your gym fees and you rep another team sometimes.
Sometimes associations, or the Federation itself can alter the agreements or change the rules. For example, under the Checkmat association, you need to be ranked third degree to promote students of any level. This is an important consideration when you're looking to run a dojo. There are also "per student", "per belt" and "renewal fees" to consider.
Now, the key here is not to think of these as teams, but as franchises. Its not a jiujitsu thing, but a business thing. So think carefully and ask about the fine print when you take that assistant instructor gig.
This is a bunch of horse shit. I train at Checkmat...
Idk about the affiliation fees, and wont pretend I do. But I know for sure any promotions past Blue are done by a 3rd degree or higher within Checkmat.
