BJJWRESTLER - Calibur 1980,when I'm talking curriculum,I'm saying not something official,but the fundamental techniques.BJJ Positions-mount,back,guard,side control,knee on the belly,Position before submission,transitions from position to position,strategy-takedown,pass the guard,cross side to mount. could add others,but you should get the point.
Judo newaza specialists are fantastic all round grapplers IHMO. They exist in a massive global sport that still has Olympic status unlike Wrestling and the talent pool available is huge.
Them having BJJ BB level like status should not be a surprise to people. In Brazil Judoka are well respected by BJJ guys but in America it is an issue due to the poor level of Judo available.
Sambo submission specialists also have a good pedigree as they exist in an area of the world that has excellent Judo and Wrestling as well, they often train together in some cases. Sambo has traditionally had longer ground work time than Judo and alway included leglocks from day 1 of training. Not to mention chokes and striking in Combat Sambo.
Grappling is grappling. We are more alike than different.
khd29,the Judo club I was at was actually pretty good. One Blackbelt was a former member of the German National team,had very good newaza,some of the other Blackbelts had competed in some big tournaments(I don't keep up with Judo,so I couldnt tell you what they were).The club was known for having good newaza too.No,I for sure did not learn knee on the belly or mount.I know there is a variation of mount to pin some one,but I did not learn all the aspects of mount,like I did in BJJ. Also,if you read up some on one of my comments about the Fabio Santos seminar,he taught posture in the Guard and I never heard or was taught that in Judo. Judo is great,but my experience between the two were very different.
BJJWRESTLER - khd29,the Judo club I was at was actually pretty good. One Blackbelt was a former member of the German National team,had very good newaza,some of the other Blackbelts had competed in some big tournaments(I don't keep up with Judo,so I couldnt tell you what they were).The club was known for having good newaza too.No,I for sure did not learn knee on the belly or mount.I know there is a variation of mount to pin some one,but I did not learn all the aspects of mount,like I did in BJJ. Also,if you read up some on one of my comments about the Fabio Santos seminar,he taught posture in the Guard and I never heard or was taught that in Judo. Judo is great,but my experience between the two were very different.
JRockwell -On the Mat - She forgot her belt. I ran to OTM and brought her a belt. Thats all it was.AHA! So you admit to promoting Ronda Rousey to black belt in BJJ!!
khd29,I have not trained Judo in years,just BJJ. I have trained with a lot of different people and schools in BJJ. Trained with Royce Gracie,Fabio Santos,Pedro Sauer(quite a bit).I went to a Dan Severn once,it was pretty good,nice guy.My instructor is Bruce Shepherd,Blackbelt,his instructor is Marcelo Ferreira in Rio.Marcelo usually comes in once or twice a year.Bruce also has some of the big names at his place,Jean Jacques Machado,Roger Gracie and bunch more. Braulio Estima is coming in May,I believe.
Was Kimura good enough to get a BB from Helio after their match?
baileboy -
Was Kimura good enough to get a BB from Helio after their match?
There were no black belts in bjj until 1967, with the establishment of the Federacão de Jiu-jitsu do Rio de Janeiro, Estado da Guanabara. Before then there were only white, light blue and dark blue belts. 
This conversation is getting a little silly. I'm dying laughing at the idea that some of you are saying you "think" you are getting the same level of instruction on positions like the mount in a judo club that you would get from say, Pedro Sauer.
Look up some videos at least before saying this. Because that statement is just bullshit. There I said it.
The intricacies are NOT found in ANY Judo training. It's way more subtle, d/t the slower, more methodical newaza.
Not saying there aren't high level judokas on the ground. But it is NOT ANYWHERE NEAR close to the complexity of what is taught by Pedro Sauer, or other high level Gracie schools.
UNIFIEDTEAM1 - This conversation is getting a little silly. I'm dying laughing at the idea that some of you are saying you "think" you are getting the same level of instruction on positions like the mount in a judo club that you would get from say, Pedro Sauer.
Look up some videos at least before saying this. Because that statement is just bullshit. There I said it.
The intricacies are NOT found in ANY Judo training. It's way more subtle, d/t the slower, more methodical newaza.
Not saying there aren't high level judokas on the ground. But it is NOT ANYWHERE NEAR close to the complexity of what is taught by Pedro Sauer, or other high level Gracie schools.
UNIFIEDTEAM1,You nailed it again! Ive trained with Prof.Pedro Sauer quite a bit,starting in 1998. One of the best instructor's in BJJ,and has an incredible jiu-jitsu game. There is a reason Helio Gracie called him the most technical outside of the Gracie family.
The only thing I can say is that WHEN Ronda inevitably gets to BB level she will be TWICE as qualified to wear the rank because she'll actually have some standing skills, unlike the modern BJJ guard puller.
I believe that you have to distinguish guard puller's. I see what you are saying,but you also have guy's like Jean Jacques Machado,in his prime period,and Marcelo Garcia. That type of guard puller is a machine,no stalling,drop down into guard(whatever type,closed or open),and attack,attack!
Althose tyso,another thought about guard pulling.In my case,when I started BJJ,I was always one of the smallest guys in class.So I would usually end up on my back the majority of time,so it was in my best interest to pull guard a lot. I did work on my takedown game too,don't get me wrong,but if you have a 150 lbs guy (me),go up against a 200 lbs,I'm not going to win the takedown battle,most of the time at least. I hear guy's on here saying all the time,"Well,train more wrestling(or Judo)". That work's fine in the street,against untrained guy's,or in a Correction's setting(Both,in my case). But in the school,or say fighting absolute division, those type of bigger guy's,you usually have slim to no chance of winning in the takedown battle,hence,guard pulling is a good option here.
JSho -JRockwell -On the Mat - She forgot her belt. I ran to OTM and brought her a belt. Thats all it was.AHA! So you admit to promoting Ronda Rousey to black belt in BJJ!!
shocking admission that you can just walk in off the street and buy a black belt from OTM, a real belt shop... smh
I know! Clearly OTM needs to be exposed for "selling" or even "giving away" BJJ black belts! They are single handedly watering down and ruining our art!
JRockwell -JSho -JRockwell -On the Mat - She forgot her belt. I ran to OTM and brought her a belt. Thats all it was.AHA! So you admit to promoting Ronda Rousey to black belt in BJJ!!
shocking admission that you can just walk in off the street and buy a black belt from OTM, a real belt shop... smhI know! Clearly OTM needs to be exposed for "selling" or even "giving away" BJJ black belts! They are single handedly watering down and ruining our art!
HoldYerGround -The only thing I can say is that WHEN Ronda inevitably gets to BB level she will be TWICE as qualified to wear the rank because she'll actually have some standing skills, unlike the modern BJJ guard puller.
rondas trained with rener for awhile, i wonder if he has given her an oficial gjj ranking yet
How could someone who's using the "old leverage points" used in judo ever get rank in BJJ...?
I would start Ronda as a blue belt and I would make her go through the belt system until she learns the basics of each belt level, the methodology of BJJ and I would make sure she would know enough to teach and pass the art as I learned from my instructor, also she would have to pay her dues like everyone else. Been good in a grappling art will help you move faster in rankings but there should not be any short cuts.
I am a black belt on both. I've been in judo for 42 years and in BJJ for 22 years. Judo and BJJ are two different arts with two different teachings methodologies.