Omar,
That's crazy! Not surprised I missed the thread though. I read alot more lately than I used to. Work has been pretty slow.
Pete
i like the man, but royce hasn't done jack since before his second shamrock fight
yoshi has the advantage and i believe will win...btw, i finally saw the youshida silva match and i was impressed with how well he hung in..he is getting better all the time..
seems like everyone stays pretty far away from him and it really screws up their game plan,
"So Yoshida grabbed Royce's right lapel with his right hand, and tried to use the lapel to choke Royce, while using his left hand (gripping the right sleeve) for extra leverage."
I've heard that Yoshida said he used a variation of the choke. Is this the variation? And does anyone know what interview Yoshida said that in?
If Royce butt-scoots he loses face IMHO. I don't give a damn what the rules are butt-scooting is a form of surrender.
Could you imaging butt-scooting a B & E man in your house,in the middle of the night while your wife and kids are sleeping nearby? I say pick the prick up and bury his face into the freakin' wall. Butt scooting is gay. The guard is last resort defense to after you have taking an ass kicking.
"By the way, someone above said that sport Judo was a submission game. I have to disagree. With ground-time so limited, sport Judo is a throwing contest with submissions allowed, but they're not really a big enough part of the contest to call Judo a submission game, in my opinion. That's like calling Muay Thai a throwing game because they allow throws. Submissions are a small part of the sport Judo game, but the focus is obviously on throwing."
I kind of see your point. But. If a player wanted to emphasis submission in his style of judo he could do it. There's no rule that would disallow it. Plus, if you slam someone hard enough, several times, they'll probably submit don't you think.
RE: Butt-scooting being gay...well, sometimes you have to butt-scoot or take a beating. Anyway, with that being said, it should definitely be a last resort and not a first resort. Especially from a self-defense viewpoint since nothing is going to stop the other guy from stomping on your legs or picking up a chair and throwing it on top of you.
RE: Royce vs. Yoshida - the one who can force the other to play his game will win.
as far as "judo primarily being throwing", i have to strongly disagree..only contest rules make this appear so, not at all with the curriculum...remember contest means to win the match..so people will do things in contest that are not very practical anywhere else (ie. the turtle position)
Omar, I've seen that fight a dozen times and in my opinion Yoshida had nothing. Royce's face was clearly visible under Yoshida's armpit, and his mouth and nose were not blocked at all, so I know he wasn't smothering. Yoshida's arm should have been on Royce's neck as well, at least pulling on Royce's lapel, but you can clearly see that it's not. You said in your message that he had Royce's lapel, but it didn't look that way to me. It's been a while since I saw it, and I'm looking for the tape to watch it again, but I saw it so many times I remember it pretty clearly.
I'm not the greatest in the world at Judo, but if there's a way to choke someone without having any contact with their neck or lapel I would sure like to learn it. I really believe that not only did he have nothing, but that there's no way he could believe that he did. I know opinions abound about this fight, but I can't think of anything other than dishonesty on Yoshida's part to explain the incident. I just hope this next fight is free of controversy. I really didnt' care who won the first one, but after what Yoshida and the ref did to Royce, I'm rooting for him on this one, although it certainly could go either way.
And Wayland, if you read my quote above, I said sport Judo was primarily throwing. And I really think it is. I know there's much more to Judo than throwing, but sport Judo is definitely focused on throwing. I think from your text you feel the same way, but maybe didn't notice I said 'sport Judo'.
What's the big deal about buttscooting? Yoshida himself did it in his fight against Vanderlei. Do what you have to do to win. If you win, it's hard to argue with your strategy.
Mexican boxers view clinching and grabbing in boxing to be a sign of weakness. That is how I view butt-scooting. Yoshida fought his ass off on his feet going for throws and throwing hands. When he butt scooted briefly in that fight it was last resort at the moment not part of the primary game plan and that is what it is good for. Butt scooting should be penalized in all grappling/mma events, i.e. judo, sambo, bjj, greco, folk, freestyle, submission wrestling, mma, freakin' every one, all of them.
Osaekomi has grabbed the correct and thrown its speedo wearing ass for ippon.
"Watch Royce when he gets up, and you see that his right lapel looks as though someone has been trying to wind it around his neck. "
If you remember the fight, when Royce pulled guard, Yoshida used that lapel to hold Royce up for a while. That's when Yoshida held onto it. I suppose we'll never agree on this, but that's OK with me. I know everybody isn't going to agree with everything I say. There's a good pic of Yoshida holding Royce up by his lapel on the UG right now though, in a thread called "Favorite MMA pic". You can see the gi getting really pulled on by Yoshida, and he's holding Royce off the mat with it. I'm still looking for the tape, but I'm not going to argue about it anymore. I just want to see the fight again, since we've been talking about it.
Osaekomi, I guess we're not going to agree either. To me buttscooting is doing what you have to do when you're in a bad situation. I've seen Sakuraba do it quite a bit, and I think he's a great fighter. When you're on your back, and your opponent is standing up, it just seems to me that it's not very bright to get up when you know he's just waiting to clock you. I know it's possible to stand up in base without getting hit, but the situation has to be right, and if it takes a little butt-scooting to get to that situation, I don't think many people would hesitate to do it. A fight is a chaotic occurrence, and all sorts of things are likely to happen. Just my two cents. I don't hold a little butt-scooting against a fighter. They're just trying to survive, just like I would be. I don't think any fighter goes out there to lose.
Yoshida by Armbar, Rd 1.
Yoshi by choke. Rd1
I wanted Royce to win until I read his latest comments on Yoshida and Judo...Now I hope he gets choked unconscious.
What were his lates comments?
Mark308 wrote,
"I don't hold a little butt-scooting against a fighter. They're just trying to survive, just like I would be. I don't think any fighter goes out there to lose."
Well, when I pay 39.95 to see guys fight; I hold it against them. If they're just trying to survive, or going out there not to lose; they could do that by sitting on their ass at home. No need to sign a contract for that.
Say what you want about Yoshida, but at least when he fought Silva he was willing to mix it up with him. He gave the fans their money's worth. He took his punishment like a man and tried to take the fight to Silva. Took his shots to try and get in position to throw Silva's ass to the ground.
Be willing to be the aggressor or go home.
"What were his lates comments?"
He said that Judo is just a sport,while bjj is for the street (self defense) and that this match wasnt about bjj vs judo because he has already proven Jiu-Jitsu superior....He also said Yoshida was liar and that he should "fuck off".
and while Yoshida may have only focused on the sport judo side, judo is far from "just a sport"...
BJJ is just as much a sport.
I don't understand what you're saying Judoguy? You expect fighters to try to stand up when their opponent is hovering over them and stick their head into a guaranteed big shot (maybe even a KO) from their opponent, just because you paid to watch? Not every second of a fight can be exciting. I'd rather see a good fight than two guys with no strategy just taking turns hitting each other until one falls down.
But then you don't hold Yoshida's buttscooting against him? He buttscooted in his fight with Silva, and all you have to say is that he tried to take the fight to Silva?
This kind of confusing and illogical diatribe is why I don't post much on the UG, and I'm already sorry I spoke up on this thread.
As far as what Royce said, I don't think much of it either, except for the liar part. As I said earlier, I pretty much agree with that. Unless, that is, one of the best judoka in the world can't tell whether he has a choke sunk in or not. Seems fishy to me for sure, but I'm just repeating myself here.
But Quincy, you don't expect anyone to really believe you wanted Royce to win do you? That was pretty funny.