Lanway - My father, a dentist in Southern California, did some work for Gladiator a few years back - he made the mouthguard impressions for all of the fighters for the 1st 2 seasons of the IFL. The first group of guys he did for free, as a favor to me. The second season, he made an agreement with Gladiator that they would pay a nominal amount for his time, use of his impression materials, and for the cost of his dental assistant. Note that this work was not done in his office, rather in a site 20 miles from his office, during office hours when he could be seeing patients, over the course of several days, and on short notice. Again he did this because I asked him to help out with a fellow UG'er -my dad is definitely not a fan in the least and I doubt the he could even tell you what MMA stands for...
Several months after he did the work, I asked him how much he wound up getting paid. He informed me that he billed Gladiator $1500 for the work, but he had not seen a penny. He told me he called Gladiator several times, each time getting excuses such as, "The check's in the mail," or ,"I think there was some kind of misunderstanding..." or the best one, "We seem to be out of money currently..."
Needless to say I was pissed! I set Gladiator up with my father in the spirit of the UG - helping a fellow fan of MMA out. To have him rip off my father like that, after i, in a way, vouched for his credibility, was embarrassing and aggravating.
I immediately called John at Gladiator on the phone voicing my displeasure, threatening to "out" his shady business practices on the UG. Amazingly, my father after being ignored for months on end, received a check for $500 the same week I called, 1/3 of the amount that had been agreed upon by Gladiator and my father. I asked my dad if he wanted me to pursue this any further - he told me that as angry as he was with Gladiator, he didn't want to cause any trouble. He felt that Gladiator was a small, poorly run company that seemed to like to promise things it couldn't deliver. And being that they did come up with some of the money, he was okay as he was tired of wasting his time with those people.
Whilst Gladiator may make a nice mouthguard, and numerous fighters I have worked with have told me they do, they certainly leave something to be desired when it comes to business practices. How this relates to the current topic, I have no idea. I just felt like finally getting this off my chest.
Lanway Ling, MD
Talk about dropping a bomb, if this is true thats about as sleezy as it gets right there.
And Lanway, again, if true, there is no way I would let my Dad get hosed in a deal like that without putting up a serious fight to get his money back. Especially if I was the one who got my Dad into it. Damn, thats shady.
My father is one of the kindest and most generous people you will ever meet. It certainly wasn't about the money - he has had a successful practice for almost 40 years, and $1000 here or there doesn't really matter to him. It was all about the principle.
Many people have had good relationships with Gladiator. I am very happy to see them sponsor so many fighters.
I just take exception to their dealings with my father. Especially after I helped set it up. So when they come online complaining about shady business practices... Karma.
seems like the dental health system in the usa sucks. im in australia and i have private health care and i receive free custom dentist made mouthguards every year, in whatever thickness i want. i have 2 layer and 3 layer ones currently. these mouthguards cost over $150 if paid upfront, but i get them for free as part of my healthcover.
oh yeah, custom made gumshields shit all over boil and bite, but boil and bite is better than nothing
Icedog, we need to catch up for a couple beers after the holiday. I do need to get a guard from you as well. Do you have a model that is good to wear while drinking?
Lanway that is not exactly what happened. Your Father and I came to an agrement to terms and price. We shipped dental material to your father to use worth several hundred dollars. Just days before the day he was to meet with the IFL he called to change the terms and price that had beeen agreed to. It was to close the date of the meet with the IFL fighters for me to get another dentist in California to cover my needs. In the end your father billed me for materials that he used because he did'nt feel comfortable with ours, but never returned our material even though we had agreed he would use our material. The amount that was paid to your father is exactly what had been agreed to in the beginning. I'm not used to people trying to renegotiate deals at the last minute, and expressed that to him several times that I felt his last minute negotiations were akin to putting my feet to the fire because I had no time to find an alternative. I'm sorry you feel that I cheated your father but I feel that I stuck to what was agreed to, he picked the original price for his service.
John, well your version certainly differs from my fathers.
Here is the timeline he gave me:
March 2006 - he does impressions on 30 IFL fighters for you free of charge
August 15, 2006 - you call him and ask him to do more impressions on a Saturday (I was wrong thinking this was in the middle of the work week). You two agree to a price of $500 for the one day of work and that you will send him the necessary impression material.
Day before the impressions are to be done, my dad is contacted by Shannon Knapp (? from IFL) telling him that the fighters will be arriving on several different days and that impressions will need to be done over the course of 3 consecutive days - Sat, Sun, Mon.
He immediately calls you and tells you that since he will need to work for 3 days instead of 1 due to the IFL scheduling change and that he will need to charge an additional $500 to cover the expense of his assistants. Also, he informs you that the impression material you told him you were going to send him has still not arrived. You and he agree that he will use his own materials and that he will charge you $250 for the supplies(This is also where I was wrong - the total bill was for $1250, not $1500 as I previously wrote).
My dad and his assistant then spend the next 3 days, Sat, Sun, Mon, doing impressions for the fighters. My dad then boxes up all the impressions and sends them to you, along with his invoice for $1250. Two days later, the impression materials you were to send him earlier, arrive at his office. You tell him to keep them for future use.
Weeks and months pass with no check. My dad attempted to contact you on several occasions. He finally does get in touch with you, whereupon you refer him to someone named Bobby Quinn (? the owner of Gladiator). She returns his call in a few days, finally telling him, "There really is not that much money in mouthguards..." She also informs him that they will not be able to pay him given the companies financial status.
Fast forward to Spring 2007 - talking with my dad and Gladiator somehow comes up in conversation. He tells me, "You know that company you had me do some work for never paid me." I get on the phone and leave you a message to call me back. You never do. I send you a letter telling you how disappointed I am in the way you did business with my father and that I would prefer not to drag our business in the open - but if I have to, I am more than happy to do so.
Magically, a check dated May 10, 2007 in the amount of $500 shows up at my dad's office - not only 9 months after the work was done, but in an amount far less than had been agreed upon.
Yes, you and my dad agreed he would be paid $500 for one days work. As soon as he found out the day before that he would be working for 3 days instead of 1 he called you and you agreed to the new price. You even commented to him, "No problem. It would cost more if I had to fly out there and do it myself." You know you were getting a great deal as you would be hard pressed to find a dentist willing to do that work, under those conditions, on such short notice, for such a relatively small amount of money.
He didn't renegotiate the deal because he wanted to do 3 days of work instead of one. He did that because that was how the IFL had scheduled them. By being available for 3 consecutive days instead of one he was doing you a huge favor - one that I can see you really don't appreciate in the least.
He still has all of your impression material collecting dust in his office. He is more than happy to return them once he is paid what he is due.
If you are satisfied in the way you have done business with him, so be it. My father isn't and neither am I. You know you were getting a hell of a bargain for $1250, let alone $500. Sorry the deal with the IFL didn't lead to great riches for you. And sorry I asked my father to help you out.
Peace out...my post count is getting far too high for my comfort level.
And Pink, how dare you say I am acting like a 16 year old. I am tempted to cover your yard in toilet paper, draw a large penis in Clorox on your lawn, leave a brown paper bag of dog poop on your doorstep, light it on fire, ring your doorbell, and run away...
!!!!!!!!! Damn that is smart of them. Really dont see eye to eye with icedog11. But I gotta say that TRUELY sucks! Its VERY misleading to the public to say the least. And what is icedog doing to do? Not do them? You just have to tell em that they cant say its a tapout even though they have the logo but keep producing them. I can understand how you would be pissed off... I would be too.
Lanway - And Pink, how dare you say I am acting like a 16 year old. I am tempted to cover your yard in toilet paper, draw a large penis in Clorox on your lawn, leave a brown paper bag of dog poop on your doorstep, light it on fire, ring your doorbell, and run away...
I could see this in the news. Doctor travels 500 miles to throw toilet paper on a persons yard after a internet comment.
humphrey sphinctermuscle - well, from the outside looking in.
1. There is NO WAY i would believe someone would prefer a boil and bite to a custom. that doesn't make sense at all.
2. the way this whole thing looks to me, and I could obviously be wrong, is icedog is pissed because tapout chose someone else, and he's bitter.
Tapout mouthguards told me they would be using someone else shortly after this thread started and I refused to take it down. They are a very small part of my business so no I'm not bitter. I told them I was uncomfortable about them using qoutes from fighters that I knew I had made guards for quite a while ago.
I also want to qualify some earlier statements, the company that make the mouthguards is not Tapout but a company licensed to use the tapout name on mouthguards, they are however acting as a agent of tapout and I know Tapout corporate offices were aware of this practice. I told them.
Lanway the dispute here is that I felt that I had contracted for thirty impressions your dad felt like I had contracted for one day of his time, this is why we no longer do verbal aggrements.